JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[NYer]

Im surprised cities would take the liability, if something goes wrong, wow...

City wouldn't take the liability. It would be the contract company, like an IDS.

 

[ALUS78]

That's probably why they're going through the current exercise and if it is, don't be surprised if some of the items mentioned in these pages as being an issue, like the pay compared to DL rather than UA, the deicing and maybe even the catering is somehow modified to turn current "no" votes into "maybe" or "yes."

Listen to this man

 

[737823]

Those Companies have the same amount of workers Al. They just chose to not have as many actual employees on their direct books.

The headcount on Delta Air Lines Inc. form 10-K includes Endeavor and DGS. Just as American Airlines Group Inc. includes Envoy, Piedmont and PSA.

Josh

 

[Racer X]

"F" the pay between other companies, what about the differences just between LUS and LAA FSCs, how long has LUS enjoyed x2 rate on holidays, the savings in the cost of medical, and and the continued contribution to their pension.

Bob
You do realize that is EXACTLY what the NC is proposing.. to bring LAA FSC’s to LUS medical (a significant pay increase for LAA) for 2x OT pay, for more pay on holidays, more sick days more holidays etc. LUS wants to bring LAA UP...not take LUS DOWN.. but it can’t be achieved without BOTH GROUPS sticking together. I understand that it can be frustrating but if we stick together and see this thru to the end it will be worth it.

 

[NYer]

Bob
You do realize that is EXACTLY what the NC is proposing.. to bring LAA FSC’s to LUS medical (a significant pay increase for LAA) for 2x OT pay, for more pay on holidays, more sick days more holidays etc. LUS wants to bring LAA UP...not take LUS DOWN.. but it can’t be achieved without BOTH GROUPS sticking together. I understand that it can be frustrating but if we stick together and see this thru to the end it will be worth it.

These are the conversations we should have had many moons ago. At this point, the frustration level and the gap of substantive information that the Company has tried to fill (even if inaccurate) has caused many to be frustrated to the point they just want an end.

There was even a time where some of the TWU posters on this page got on the IAM's case because they didn't protest, but we didn't take the time to realize their position and how these negotiations affected them. They were vilified for not participating instead of us trying to understand their point of view.

For two years plus, there were TWU posters that predicted an easy and quick negotiation while anyone with reason could see this would be a drawn-out process. That predictable long process was not shared with the Members and that has has caused the frustration we see today and frustration is the enemy of sticking together.

Those attacks on the IAM, when they were doing exactly what we would have done, has now caused some to question why we should support their quest to keep their medical when they supposedly didn't support our summer protests.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Bob
You do realize that is EXACTLY what the NC is proposing.. to bring LAA FSC’s to LUS medical (a significant pay increase for LAA) for 2x OT pay, for more pay on holidays, more sick days more holidays etc. LUS wants to bring LAA UP...not take LUS DOWN.. but it can’t be achieved without BOTH GROUPS sticking together. I understand that it can be frustrating but if we stick together and see this thru to the end it will be worth it.

I support that position but to be honest its intellectual dishonesty to claim laa will come up to the current lus medical anytime soon. This path, is the best path, but it will involve significant sacrifice and not be given overnight.

 

[Racer X]

I support that position but to be honest its intellectual dishonesty to claim laa will come up to the current lus medical anytime soon. This path, is the best path, but it will involve significant sacrifice and not be given overnight.

Not sure what your intention was with “ intellectual dishonesty”. I didn’t claim that LAA will come up to LUS soon. All I said is... that is what the goal is of the NC and we all need to stick together.

 

[Racer X]

These are the conversations we should have had many moons ago. At this point, the frustration level and the gap of substantive information that the Company has tried to fill (even if inaccurate) has caused many to be frustrated to the point they just want an end.

There was even a time where some of the TWU posters on this page got on the IAM's case because they didn't protest, but we didn't take the time to realize their position and how these negotiations affected them. They were vilified for not participating instead of us trying to understand their point of view.

For two years plus, there were TWU posters that predicted an easy and quick negotiation while anyone with reason could see this would be a drawn-out process. That predictable long process was not shared with the Members and that has nos caused the frustration we see today and frustration is the enemy of sticking together.

Those attacks on the IAM, when they were doing exactly what we would have done, has now caused some to question why we should support their quest to keep their medical when they supposedly didn't support our summer protests.

To be fair...as I recall the summer protests by the TWU focused on going from 5 holidays to 7 and 5 days to 10 sick time. The protests had not included the medical.

 

[AANOTOK]

These are the conversations we should have had many moons ago. At this point, the frustration level and the gap of substantive information that the Company has tried to fill (even if inaccurate) has caused many to be frustrated to the point they just want an end.

There was even a time where some of the TWU posters on this page got on the IAM's case because they didn't protest, but we didn't take the time to realize their position and how these negotiations affected them. They were vilified for not participating instead of us trying to understand their point of view.

For two years plus, there were TWU posters that predicted an easy and quick negotiation while anyone with reason could see this would be a drawn-out process. That predictable long process was not shared with the Members and that has nos caused the frustration we see today and frustration is the enemy of sticking together.

Those attacks on the IAM, when they were doing exactly what we would have done, has now caused some to question why we should support their quest to keep their medical when they supposedly didn't support our summer protests.

I'll just simply say you are wrong, NYer. The complaint was an industry leading contract for all. The protests the IAM failed to back or participate in wasn't a LUS/LAA medical protest. We are an Association and as one we protest or we don't. To be honest, I'm a little surprised you are taking that position and saying if you were in their position you would have done the same thing. (Avoid protesting because you already liked what you had).
We all understood their position and we also wanted what they had. What prevented them from fighting (protesting) on behalf of ALL ASSOCIATION MEMBERS. Wasn't that exactly why THEY SAID the Association was formed, STRENGTH IN NUMBERS!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'll just simply say you are wrong, NYer. The complaint was an industry leading contract for all. The protests the IAM failed to back or participate in wasn't a LUS/LAA medical protest. We are an Association and as one we protest or we don't. To be honest, I'm a little surprised you are taking that position and saying if you were in their position you would have done the same thing. (Avoid protesting because you already liked what you had).
We all understood their position and we also wanted what they had. What prevented them from fighting (protesting) on behalf of ALL ASSOCIATION MEMBERS. Wasn't that exactly why THEY SAID the Association was formed, STRENGTH IN NUMBERS!!

All members need to support rallies. My age refused but i still joined in because we have to stick together. Was really embarrassing that Sito had the lus union bosses stand down.
We protested not having a fair contract. I know cuz i handed the flyers out. We didn't protest specific sick pay.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure what your intention was with “ intellectual dishonesty”. I didn’t claim that LAA will come up to LUS soon. All I said is... that is what the goal is of the NC and we all need to stick together.

He does tend to allude that others are the ones making statements that something is a given when he’s the only one who keeps making claims. (His Wikileaks, Superfly, Key insiders)

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not sure what your intention was with “ intellectual dishonesty”. I didn’t claim that LAA will come up to LUS soon. All I said is... that is what the goal is of the NC and we all need to stick together.

But I think this path should be fully disclosed. Most twu members I talk to think each new update will be a TA. Although i love Alex and weez supporting our lus iam contract, it's a path that will last a very long time and will require serious sacrifice by twu members.. Therefore, the association will have to make it clear that a jcba wont be had for years and standing by lus health means years. Without full disclosure, it will fall apart and things could be raided, especially in the mx craft.

 

[WeAAsles]

But I think this path should be fully disclosed. Most twu members I talk to think each new update will be a TA. Although i love Alex and weez supporting our lus iam contract, it's a path that will last a very long time and will require serious sacrifice by twu members.. Therefore, the association will have to make it clear that a jcba wont be had for years and standing by lus health means years. Without full disclosure, it will fall apart and things could be raided, especially in the mx craft.

And he’s off and running all Fruitcake once again. Sigh.

 

[NYer]

To be fair...as I recall the summer protests by the TWU focused on going from 5 holidays to 7 and 5 days to 10 sick time. The protests had not included the medical.

At that time, it wasn't yet an issue but it was going to clearly be a topic of the negotiations and an important one for the Company.

As a matter of fact, even on these pages there was pushback that the IAM medical would be a significant issue during these negotiations.

It is also important to remember, that the TWU is trying to climb up their contractual ladder while the IAM is hoping not to fall off.

 

[NYer]

I'll just simply say you are wrong, NYer. The complaint was an industry leading contract for all. The protests the IAM failed to back or participate in wasn't a LUS/LAA medical protest. We are an Association and as one we protest or we don't. To be honest, I'm a little surprised you are taking that position and saying if you were in their position you would have done the same thing. (Avoid protesting because you already liked what you had).
We all understood their position and we also wanted what they had. What prevented them from fighting (protesting) on behalf of ALL ASSOCIATION MEMBERS. Wasn't that exactly why THEY SAID the Association was formed, STRENGTH IN NUMBERS!!

Read it again. I didn't say the protest was about the Medical.

You can disagree, but the TWU protested to get a contract. The point of view from the TWU side is that we want more of just about everything. I believe the IAM medical won't survive, but I don't want to rush them towards a deal just because I believe that loss is inevitable. So most were protesting from the perspective that we need to reach higher levels in Holidays, VC, SK and other things while the IAM already has some of those.

To us, moving towards a deal would help us to get some of the financials we've been lacking, for them it would be rushing towards fighting to keep their medical and pension. If you're them, why rush that process? We wouldn't.

Today, we may be on the same page but it's because we now have tangible items to lose (as opposed to rumors) so we can fight the common cause.

And yes, strength is in numbers but we, the Members, needed to be better informed and educated on the issues each side faced so we could have come together knowing what the challenges would be. That didn't happen so there is little understanding what the other side faces and how the TA may or may not affect them.