JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[swamt]

I can drive up to Dallas for that.
 
 

Would love to have you, would be more than welcomed.
 

Our companies are very profitable just like fedex and ups are so we should make the same wage as the mechanics over there doing the exact same work as we are. Fedex currently at 53 and hour. UPS at 50 and in negotiations for a new contract. 

Well said and correct. 
 

Then why don't you put your application in at FedEx or UPS?
 
Could it have something to do with UNION seniority?
 
 
 
There is also the fact that FedEx and UPS are NOT airlines. It may be the same work from your perspective but the businesses are very different and have different cost models.

Really?  C'mon man.  Get a clue. You are obviously not for the industry as a whole.

 

[Worldport]

Our companies are very profitable just like fedex and ups are so we should make the same wage as the mechanics over there doing the exact same work as we are. Fedex currently at 53 and hour. UPS at 50 and in negotiations for a new contract. 

I thought you were in that ball park now. To get to UPS and Fed ex you'd probably have to agree to outsource what they do. Would you agree to that? 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Then why don't you put your application in at FedEx or UPS?

Really?  C'mon man.  Get a clue. You are obviously not for the industry as a whole.

I have asked this question several times during my tenure on this forum.
 
I have never seen a legitimate answer.
 
Not one person has said "this is the reason why".
 
You don't answer it because you don't have an answer.
 
The fact is the only person keeping you working under a UNION contract in American Airlines employ is YOU.
 
You have one luxury American Airlines does not, at will employment.  If you are unhappy working there use it.
 
 
Stating you should make x amount because someone else makes x amount is a true show of ignorance.
 
UPS and FedEx are in a different business than American Airlines. They have a different business model, different paths to revenue, and different levels of acceptable cost for services.
 
What your trying to do is dictate your worth to your employer based on what someone else is willing to pay and the world does not work that way.
 
You don't get paid what your job is worth in the real world. What you get paid is a reflection of demand vs available resources (see below). Pay is dependent on how much they need you and how many people can do what you do or are willing to do what you do.
 
 
You can make 100k a year doing a job after investing 2 years of training at a tech school. Get over yourself. 
 
High school students where I live can get that training FREE (if you doubt it check the links below). They even have an American Airlines MD-80 sitting in their hanger to train on (http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/american-airlines-donates-md-80-jet-to-tulsa-tech). You have a group of students graduating every year with a government sponsored A&P from Tulsa Tech training on American Airlines metal. Tulsa Tech is providing potential fresh recruits to American Airlines every year fresh out of high school. Let that sync in for a bit.  
 
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-airframe/
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-powerplant/
 

 
Is your cry fest about FedEx and UPS pay over yet or should we go another round?
 
You may not like what I say but I dare you to dispute any of it with any facts instead of UNION propaganda and whining. 

 

[Worldport]

 
The US is the only country on the planet that doesn't refer to us as "Aircraft Maintenance Engineers".  This is more political than anything else.  There is no benefit in it for the union; in fact, they often just refer to us as maintenance workers.  It also helps their cause in keeping AMTs saddled up with all the "and related" types to water down any vote to get out of this wonderful union.

Do you check your look every time you see your reflection? Do aircraft engineers in other parts of the world watch TV for 5 out of 8 hours a day?I will refer to you as engineers from now on I won't even ask to see your MIT diploma. Keep telling yourselves you're great and then look south to Mexico and face the reality

 

[Worldport]

I have asked this question several times during my tenure on this forum.
 
I have never seen a legitimate answer.
 
Not one person has said "this is the reason why".
 
You don't answer it because you don't have an answer.
 
The fact is the only person keeping you working under a UNION contract in American Airlines employ is YOU.
 
You have one luxury American Airlines does not, at will employment.  If you are unhappy working there use it.
 
 
Stating you should make x amount because someone else makes x amount is a true show of ignorance.
 
UPS and FedEx are in a different business than American Airlines. They have a different business model, different paths to revenue, and different levels of acceptable cost for services.
 
What your trying to do is dictate your worth to your employer based on what someone else is willing to pay and the world does not work that way.
 
You don't get paid what your job is worth in the real world. What you get paid is a reflection of demand vs available resources (see below). Pay is dependent on how much they need you and how many people can do what you do or are willing to do what you do.
 
 
You can make 100k a year doing a job after investing 2 years of training at a tech school. Get over yourself. 
 
High school students where I live can get that training FREE (if you doubt it check the links below). They even have an American Airlines MD-80 sitting in their hanger to train on (http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/american-airlines-donates-md-80-jet-to-tulsa-tech). You have a group of students graduating every year with a government sponsored A&P from Tulsa Tech training on American Airlines metal. Tulsa Tech is providing potential fresh recruits to American Airlines every year fresh out of high school. Let that sync in for a bit.  
 
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-airframe/
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-powerplant/
 

 
Is your cry fest about FedEx and UPS pay over yet or should we go another round?
 
You may not like what I say but I dare you to dispute any of it with any facts instead of UNION propaganda and whining. 

Where I lived A&P courses are available to high school kids in a program called BOCES. I hate to say it but the reality is most kids that go to BOCES are shall we say less academically incline not college material

 

[Vortilon]

I have asked this question several times during my tenure on this forum.
 
I have never seen a legitimate answer.
 
Not one person has said "this is the reason why".
 
You don't answer it because you don't have an answer.
 
The fact is the only person keeping you working under a UNION contract in American Airlines employ is YOU.
 
You have one luxury American Airlines does not, at will employment.  If you are unhappy working there use it.
 
 
Stating you should make x amount because someone else makes x amount is a true show of ignorance.
 
UPS and FedEx are in a different business than American Airlines. They have a different business model, different paths to revenue, and different levels of acceptable cost for services.
 
What your trying to do is dictate your worth to your employer based on what someone else is willing to pay and the world does not work that way.
 
You don't get paid what your job is worth in the real world. What you get paid is a reflection of demand vs available resources (see below). Pay is dependent on how much they need you and how many people can do what you do or are willing to do what you do.
 
 
You can make 100k a year doing a job after investing 2 years of training at a tech school. Get over yourself. 
 
High school students where I live can get that training FREE (if you doubt it check the links below). They even have an American Airlines MD-80 sitting in their hanger to train on (http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease/american-airlines-donates-md-80-jet-to-tulsa-tech). You have a group of students graduating every year with a government sponsored A&P from Tulsa Tech training on American Airlines metal. Tulsa Tech is providing potential fresh recruits to American Airlines every year fresh out of high school. Let that sync in for a bit.  
 
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-airframe/
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-powerplant/
 
Is your cry fest about FedEx and UPS pay over yet or should we go another round?
 
You may not like what I say but I dare you to dispute any of it with any facts instead of UNION propaganda and whining. 

All this has been done before.  AA even had their own A&P Academy in Chicago.  Where did it go?  You can lead a horse to water.....  How many that start the course actually finish it?   If the prospect is determined enough, they then must pass the FAA written, oral, and practical testing for AMTs.  Then if they are lucky enough to get hired somewhere, it sounds pretty good till it's time to do a background check, followed by a drug screening test.  You would be amazed at the failure rate.  Bare in mind, Airlines require experienced AMTs, so the recent grad will find himself working sometimes at some pretty sketchy outfits to gain experience for the resume'.  If they manage to get through all that, and get hired at one of the major airlines or freight companies, then they find out about the wonderful days off, and shift they will be working.  Oh, and forget about holidays off.  Oddly enough that scares off quite a few as well.  Some will refuse to relocate, welcome to the life of an AMT. 
 
It's not as easy as you make it seem in your post.  Clearly, you haven't lived the experience.  The $100k figure is fairly recent, and a long time coming.  We are still waiting on the benefits.  Bottom line, there is no lack of applicants for most positions at airlines.  There is; however, a lack of applicants that will pass the testing, and background checks.  Then if they do get through all of that, get all the training they need to add to their resume's, why stay at AA - when they can jump ship for better pay and benefits?  There is no concern for seniority with less than 5 years invested.  I have seen guys jump ship with over 25 years with the firm.
 
Remember to take all these these factors into consideration before you make your assumptions, and post showing your lack of knowledge on the topic.

 

[Vortilon]

Do you check your look every time you see your reflection? Do aircraft engineers in other parts of the world watch TV for 5 out of 8 hours a day?I will refer to you as engineers from now on I won't even ask to see your MIT diploma. Keep telling yourselves you're great and then look south to Mexico and face the reality

Your insecurity is evident.  Watch TV?  If there is a TV in our ready room - who cares?  Tell you what, lets remove every TV off of company property - starting with your break area.  Then over to the Pilots and F/As ready rooms as well.  Then over to HDQ, and the IOC, I'm sure it would go over well. I'm a line AMT, we don't get paid for how much work we do like a factory worker.  We get paid for our knowledge, skill, and ability to sign the aircraft logbook allowing for safe, legal flight per the FAA.  Look to Mexico?  How is a Mexican gonna sign off a logbook on a through flight in DFW or ORD?  As far as outsourcing heavy checks, at this point, most of us are through accepting less pay and benefits to "allegedly" prevent outsourcing and or headcount reductions.  The grim reality is, if they are gonna do it - it's going to happen one way or the other.  We have lived it, and hopefully learned our lesson.
 
Why do you care anyway?  Please stay on the Baggage Handler BB. 

 

[Worldport]

I'
 

All this has been done before.  AA even had their own A&P Academy in Chicago.  Where did it go?  You can lead a horse to water.....  How many that start the course actually finish it?   If the prospect is determined enough, they then must pass the FAA written, oral, and practical testing for AMTs.  Then if they are lucky enough to get hired somewhere, it sounds pretty good till it's time to do a background check, followed by a drug screening test.  You would be amazed at the failure rate.  Bare in mind, Airlines require experienced AMTs, so the recent grad will find himself working sometimes at some pretty sketchy outfits to gain experience for the resume'.  If they manage to get through all that, and get hired at one of the major airlines or freight companies, then they find out about the wonderful days off, and shift they will be working.  Oh, and forget about holidays off.  Oddly enough that scares off quite a few as well.  Some will refuse to relocate, welcome to the life of an AMT. 
 
It's not as easy as you make it seem in your post.  Clearly, you haven't lived the experience.  The $100k figure is fairly recent, and a long time coming.  We are still waiting on the benefits.  Bottom line, there is no lack of applicants for most positions at airlines.  There is; however, a lack of applicants that will pass the testing, and background checks.  Then if they do get through all of that, get all the training they need to add to their resume's, why stay at AA - when they can jump ship for better pay and benefits?  There is no concern for seniority with less than 5 years invested.  I have seen guys jump ship with over 25 years with the firm.
 
Remember to take all these these factors into consideration before you make your assumptions, and post showing your lack of knowledge on the topic.

l'll grant you your skills can be applied in other fields power plants just to name one even there in the beginning you will be working weekends and holidays. Since the latest raises how many have left? I think you guys have a  dam good job.

 

[AANOTOK]

Pilots fly the plane, BUT mechanics/AMT's keep them in the sky. They are worth every penny they can wring out of the company. The last FedEx plane to crash killed all on board, both of them. The last Passanger plane to crash also killed all on board, over 100. You get my point comparing their mechanics to ours. The responsibility goes much deeper.

 

[Worldport]

Your insecurity is evident.  Watch TV?  If there is a TV in our ready room - who cares?  Tell you what, lets remove every TV off of company property - starting with your break area.  Then over to the Pilots and F/As ready rooms as well.  Then over to HDQ, and the IOC, I'm sure it would go over well. I'm a line AMT, we don't get paid for how much work we do like a factory worker.  We get paid for our knowledge, skill, and ability to sign the aircraft logbook allowing for safe, legal flight per the FAA.  Look to Mexico?  How is a Mexican gonna sign off a logbook on a through flight in DFW or ORD?  As far as outsourcing heavy checks, at this point, most of us are through accepting less pay and benefits to "allegedly" prevent outsourcing and or headcount reductions.  The grim reality is, if they are gonna do it - it's going to happen one way or the other.  We have lived it, and hopefully learned our lesson.
 
Why do you care anyway?  Please stay on the Baggage Handler BB. 

Good advice I will stay away from your forum and I don't really care what you do that one post however was over the top implying  that the "related" folks are keeping you down you sounded like a pompous ass. Do you really think if you had a exclusive union you would be making $75 an hour? 

 

[matt]

UPS and FEDEX fly boxes and we fly souls. That is the big difference! Aircraft maintenance is the same. My son works in the refrigeration industry and makes more than most aircraft mechanics. If the freezer section shuts down they throw the food away. If the aircraft is not properly maintained we don't throw souls away! The flying public needs to realize we are not a grease monkey or knuckle dragging mechanic. We are the reason they arrive safely!!!!

 

[Worldport]

Pilots fly the plane, BUT mechanics/AMT's keep them in the sky. They are worth every penny they can wring out of the company. The last FedEx plane to crash killed all on board, both of them. The last Passanger plane to crash also killed all on board, over 100. You get my point comparing their mechanics to ours. The responsibility goes much deeper.

I agree they should get all they can. I will tell you the company would give them UPS and Fed Ex wages in a heartbeat if they would agree to the same work rules. Unfortunately that would lead to thousands of layoffs on the other hand the less they are the more elite they could feel ,that is very important to some of them

 

[Worldport]

UPS and FEDEX fly boxes and we fly souls. That is the big difference! Aircraft maintenance is the same. My son works in the refrigeration industry and makes more than most aircraft mechanics. If the freezer section shuts down they throw the food away. If the aircraft is not properly maintained we don't throw souls away! The flying public needs to realize we are not a grease monkey or knuckle dragging mechanic. We are the reason they arrive safely!!!!

You cant send out to Mexico for a refrigerator repairman, that's not a wise ass statement that's reality. Matt what do you think you should be making per hour?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

First off I have an admission.
 
I looked closer into the eligibility of this class and as it turns out only adult students are allowed to take this class. So the FREE training for HS students is out the window.
 
I would like to iterate that this school does allow high school students to attend MOST of it's classes.
 
So at any rate my apologies for the bad information. 
 
Now that that is out of the way......
 
 

All this has been done before.  AA even had their own A&P Academy in Chicago.  Where did it go?  You can lead a horse to water.....  How many that start the course actually finish it?   If the prospect is determined enough, they then must pass the FAA written, oral, and practical testing for AMTs.  Then if they are lucky enough to get hired somewhere, it sounds pretty good till it's time to do a background check, followed by a drug screening test.  You would be amazed at the failure rate.  Bare in mind, Airlines require experienced AMTs, so the recent grad will find himself working sometimes at some pretty sketchy outfits to gain experience for the resume'.  If they manage to get through all that, and get hired at one of the major airlines or freight companies, then they find out about the wonderful days off, and shift they will be working.  Oh, and forget about holidays off.  Oddly enough that scares off quite a few as well.  Some will refuse to relocate, welcome to the life of an AMT. 
 
It's not as easy as you make it seem in your post.  Clearly, you haven't lived the experience.  The $100k figure is fairly recent, and a long time coming.  We are still waiting on the benefits.  Bottom line, there is no lack of applicants for most positions at airlines.  There is; however, a lack of applicants that will pass the testing, and background checks.  Then if they do get through all of that, get all the training they need to add to their resume's, why stay at AA - when they can jump ship for better pay and benefits?  There is no concern for seniority with less than 5 years invested.  I have seen guys jump ship with over 25 years with the firm.
 
Remember to take all these these factors into consideration before you make your assumptions, and post showing your lack of knowledge on the topic.

I would say for the most part your observations are more true than not.
 
However, after working at a maintenance base the "real picture" your trying to paint..... well I have heard it all before. I worked 12 years shoulder to shoulder with THOUSANDS of mechanics, remember?
 
I have worked in an airline. I know all about the real world of crap days off, holidays, and oddball hours. 
 
That being said there is nothing untrue about what I said (aside from the high school student eligibility).
 
Mechanics need to stop saying they deserve just because someone else has. That makes you sound stupid. Get a raise on your own merits and the value you provide to the company, not what FedEx or UPS pays..............

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I think you guys have a  dam good job.

Yes they do.