JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[OldGuy@AA]

Wow. I didn't know you guys had that at AA. At NWA, we at line maintenance outstatons were leads and mechanics. We had no Avionics, or GSE. We maintained the entire station and were left alone to do it. All of my crew were good with everything or they were peer pressured to the midnight shift as oilers and brake/tire changers and scheduled checks. The top notch guys who could do it all worked the live flights. At the hubs MSP/DTW, we did have Avionics guys who would cover a number of gates on the line to handle complex troubleshooting...helping the assigned gate mechanic.

In my opinion, every mechanic should be an "Avionics" guy in this age.

Good luck on your contract!

To be fair I was referring to Overhaul avionics guys. The primadonas of the hangars. haha

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

To be fair I was referring to Overhaul avionics guys. The primadonas of the hangars. haha

Got it. Been there done that too. I did hangar Avionics (that was one of the easier jobs!), sheet metal, systems, engine change crew, 6 month temp in the weld shop (the worst job ever welding cracks in nut plate rings all day), then the last 10+ years line maintenance, 3 years at a hub, the other years at an out station doing whatever rolled up to the gate and doing GSE in between flights. After all the bumping and layoffs, with the ability to exercise seniority, we all had a large skill set to pull from. Did all that up until the strike. Not many mechanics left out there like that now. Good times. One thing though, after the strike, I was able to help every person I worked with at the out station get a job based on just one of the skills we used there.

 

[Real tired]

Would someone detail Crew Chief Seniority method? Does anyone lose time? Who has bumping rights etc...

I'll try.
First, since you seem to be AA, I'm guessing you are referring to our "Lead" seniority method, correct?

If that's the case, the answer is no. No one loses time. We all start as Mechanics first, then you bid the premium position, Lead, and that is when your time in that position starts. You do not lose your time in the "Mechanic" position, in fact, your time continues to accrue in both positions. Lead and Mechanic.

If you have time in both positions, and you are bumped, you exercise your seniority in that position first. You can't get bumped as a Mechanic, and bump a Lead just because you have Lead time. You have to bid the job first.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

looks like anyone that has a pension at LAA just might get screwed if it were to happen. And all this time 700 said it was fully funded. fair value 57.5% not good.

700UW is a liar.

Have you not figured that out yet?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

 

[swamt]

700UW is a liar.

Have you not figured that out yet?

I guess this guy has not been following the numerous upon numerous times we have prooved 700 to be lying. The biggest was the "don't worry about it, you guys will get to vote on the association". Remember that one???

 

[Deleted member 14439]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

Hey, I hear and understand your frustration . However I doubt there will be much sympathy . Having that week off, however it happens, is a good thing. That doesn't happen in the line world. I imagine this will be the last year you have to worry about the Christmas shut down. I'm betting it goes away with a JCBA. Then watch how many guys howl about not having that time off every year. Enjoy the time off. Many guys will not have that.

 

[Rogallo]

Yeah, they're pretty lucky to still have that perk!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Hey, I hear and understand your frustration . However I doubt there will be much sympathy . Having that week off, however it happens, is a good thing. That doesn't happen in the line world. I imagine this will be the last year you have to worry about the Christmas shut down. I'm betting it goes away with a JCBA. Then watch how many guys howl about not having that time off every year. Enjoy the time off. Many guys will not have that.

Well my thinking is that if they wanted to shut down we should not work it but they always got enough volunteers to keep things going. I have gotten used to taking that week off for all these years and I actually will miss it but no matter how you look at it it's a lock out.

 

[bigjets]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

The week should be a normal work week like the rest of the airline, after all, we all work under the same contract.

What a bunch of whiners. If the place can be closed for a week, how essential is it ?

Just venting.

 

[Buck]

I'll try.
First, since you seem to be AA, I'm guessing you are referring to our "Lead" seniority method, correct?

If that's the case, the answer is no. No one loses time. We all start as Mechanics first, then you bid the premium position, Lead, and that is when your time in that position starts. You do not lose your time in the "Mechanic" position, in fact, your time continues to accrue in both positions. Lead and Mechanic.

If you have time in both positions, and you are bumped, you exercise your seniority in that position first. You can't get bumped as a Mechanic, and bump a Lead just because you have Lead time. You have to bid the job first.

Clear enough thanks. I guess the decision of when that bid is awarded or the individual becomes qualified will be determined in the JCBA.

 

[ASSociation Clown]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

Got me out of forums retirement for this one.
This isn't aimed at you Old Guy, instead for your Local.

So what you are saying is that the Tulsa Local had been violating the contract and cutting a deal that those of us on the line do not get by using the holiday off instead of a vacation day. A Tulsa local that pushed for a yes vote but then doesn't require its members to work under the same crappy contract as everyone else. Not very union like. If we had the option of not following the contract here in Miami, the senior guys with five weeks vacation and take a holiday week would only use 20 days instead of 25, so therefore they would have a sixth week. Now it looks like the company is following the contract, and the yes voters (not you Old Guy) are pissed off because they have to work under what they voted for. Sounds to me that you guys have been getting screwed out of extra time away from work during the shutdown each year by the contract being violated.

Welcome to 2012. It's 2016 for the rest of us working for 4 years under this hunk of junk.

I pulled these parts from the contract on jetnet for you

LETTER OF MEMORANDUM – 4 – AFW, DWH AND TULE CHRISTMAS BASE CLOSING

From: James B. Weel

To: James C. Little

Re: AFW, DWH and TULE Christmas Base Closing

Revised September 12, 2012

This will confirm our agreement that the AFW, DWH and TULE Maintenance Bases will be closed for one (1) week during the Christmas holiday period, requiring all employees to take vacation. (Except the Central Utility Plant, Coffee Maker/Oven Shop, Slide Shop and the Battery shop at AFW DWH and Central Utility in Tulsa.)

Administrative details will be determined by mutual agreement. The actual weeks of closure will be determined by mutual agreement.

And...

Unless otherwise noted, the holiday will be observed on the first day following the employee's vacation or days off in accordance with Article 7.

And...from the holiday section

If an employee is on a 5/8’s schedule and any of the above holidays fall within his vacation period, his next workday following the vacation period will be observed as the holiday. An employee required to work on that day will be paid in accordance with Article 7(b) [HW].
(1) If an employee is on a 4/10’s schedule and any of the above holidays fall within his vacation period, he will receive eight (8) hours at his base hourly rate in compensation for the holiday [HO] in addition to his vacation pay. The observance of the holiday will not move or change, but will be observed in accordance with Article 7(a).

 

[Buck]

The week should be a normal work week like the rest of the airline, after all, we all work under the same contract.

What a bunch of whiners. If the place can be closed for a week, how essential is it ?

Just venting.

"Base Closure" was to save the airline 1 million dollars. I have worked most every year during that week .
Most of the time we worked the aircraft closest to the door. ( to Revenue ) and often a Structure job was being worked. As for saving anything? I am not sure how the TWU/AA Algebra works, however, if employees are not working then there isn't any money going into their pockets. Until the bankruptcy, I believe employees could purchase up to 5 days of vacation to fill in those closure days.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

The week should be a normal work week like the rest of the airline, after all, we all work under the same contract.

What a bunch of whiners. If the place can be closed for a week, how essential is it ?

Just venting.

Exactly Bigjets.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Got me out of forums retirement for this one.
This isn't aimed at you Old Guy, instead for your Local.

So what you are saying is that the Tulsa Local had been violating the contract and cutting a deal that those of us on the line do not get by using the holiday off instead of a vacation day. A Tulsa local that pushed for a yes vote but then doesn't require its members to work under the same crappy contract as everyone else. Not very union like. If we had the option of not following the contract here in Miami, the senior guys with five weeks vacation and take a holiday week would only use 20 days instead of 25, so therefore they would have a sixth week. Now it looks like the company is following the contract, and the yes voters (not you Old Guy) are pissed off because they have to work under what they voted for. Sounds to me that you guys have been getting screwed out of extra time away from work during the shutdown each year by the contract being violated.

Welcome to 2012. It's 2016 for the rest of us working for 4 years under this hunk of junk.

I pulled these parts from the contract on jetnet for you

LETTER OF MEMORANDUM – 4 – AFW, DWH AND TULE CHRISTMAS BASE CLOSING

From: James B. Weel

To: James C. Little

Re: AFW, DWH and TULE Christmas Base Closing

Revised September 12, 2012

This will confirm our agreement that the AFW, DWH and TULE Maintenance Bases will be closed for one (1) week during the Christmas holiday period, requiring all employees to take vacation. (Except the Central Utility Plant, Coffee Maker/Oven Shop, Slide Shop and the Battery shop at AFW DWH and Central Utility in Tulsa.)

Administrative details will be determined by mutual agreement. The actual weeks of closure will be determined by mutual agreement.

And...

Unless otherwise noted, the holiday will be observed on the first day following the employee's vacation or days off in accordance with Article 7.

And...from the holiday section

If an employee is on a 5/8’s schedule and any of the above holidays fall within his vacation period, his next workday following the vacation period will be observed as the holiday. An employee required to work on that day will be paid in accordance with Article 7(b) [HW].
(1) If an employee is on a 4/10’s schedule and any of the above holidays fall within his vacation period, he will receive eight (8) hours at his base hourly rate in compensation for the holiday [HO] in addition to his vacation pay. The observance of the holiday will not move or change, but will be observed in accordance with Article 7(a).

So where in there does it say that we have to take 40 hours of vacation at at time? If you take vacation on a holiday week and take a partial week (Such as 4 days) then the fifth day would be the holiday. Don't see anywhere that this contradicts the contract. So tell me.... On the line stations do you have to take 40 hours of vacation at a time? Just interested to know. We do not have to take 40 hours at a time and we can take single days. But it looks like that will be changing for us so we all do the same thing. As you know Tulsa did a lot of things the line didn't and visa/versa.