JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[Real tired]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

So.. as per your contract, they FORCE you to take a vacation week, whether you want to or not, over Christmas week ?

Wow. I learn something new here every day.

For us, we just get the day off with pay. They just close for one day.

The line, if it's your scheduled work day, gets an extra 8 hours, or, if you choose to, 8 hours straight time and another day off of your choosing. If you're off, it's with pay. Plus your remaining vacation can be used a day at a time (DAT) for your 5 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

So.. as per your contract, they FORCE you to take a vacation week, whether you want to or not, over Christmas week ?

Wow. I learn something new here every day.

For us, we just get the day off with pay. They just close for one day.

The line, if it's your scheduled work day, gets an extra 8 hours, or, if you choose to, 8 hours straight time and another day off of your choosing. If you're off, it's with pay. Plus your remaining vacation can be used a day at a time (DAT) for your 5 weeks.

There is also the option to take Christmas week off unpaid. If you are out of vacation .

 

[OldGuy@AA]

So.. as per your contract, they FORCE you to take a vacation week, whether you want to or not, over Christmas week ?

Wow. I learn something new here every day.

For us, we just get the day off with pay. They just close for one day.

The line, if it's your scheduled work day, gets an extra 8 hours, or, if you choose to, 8 hours straight time and another day off of your choosing. If you're off, it's with pay. Plus your remaining vacation can be used a day at a time (DAT) for your 5 weeks.

You can volunteer to work if you don't have vacation but there is no guarantee that you'll be able to. I have had the option of working the past several years but chose not to. As I said before if AA wants the base closed for a week I think it should be closed. Nobody should be there. AFW had a base shut down too before they closed. But it will probably be a moot point after this year.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

You can volunteer to work if you don't have vacation but there is no guarantee that you'll be able to. I have had the option of working the past several years but chose not to. As I said before if AA wants the base closed for a week I think it should be closed. Nobody should be there. AFW had a base shut down too before they closed. But it will probably be a moot point after this year.

Agreed. Of course we are assuming we will reach a JCBA in 2017. Given the current pace of negotiations. That's looking pretty iffy!!

 

[AA89]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

The part I don't get is how they can force you to take your vacation in another year. In this case you say rolling Christmas into January. That seems easily a grievance as we aren't allowed to carry over vacation. The other stuff has always been standard base rules as in this year use 4 vac days or unpaid days to cover Tuesday through Friday and get Holiday pay on Monday. That's been the precedent for years.

 

[AA89]

The week should be a normal work week like the rest of the airline, after all, we all work under the same contract.

What a bunch of whiners. If the place can be closed for a week, how essential is it ?

Just venting.

Let management change the shift swapping rules at the line and see if there isn't plenty of "whining"

 

[OldGuy@AA]

The part I don't get is how they can force you to take your vacation in another year. In this case you say rolling Christmas into January. That seems easily a grievance as we aren't allowed to carry over vacation. The other stuff has always been standard base rules as in this year use 4 vac days or unpaid days to cover Tuesday through Friday and get Holiday pay on Monday. That's been the precedent for years.

That's what I'm trying to tell the union reps. How can we let them push a holiday from 2016 into 2017 when we can't do that with vacation. As usual the company wants something so the TWU lets them have it. If we want something it's tough.

 

[Vortilon]

I'll try.
First, since you seem to be AA, I'm guessing you are referring to our "Lead" seniority method, correct?

If that's the case, the answer is no. No one loses time. We all start as Mechanics first, then you bid the premium position, Lead, and that is when your time in that position starts. You do not lose your time in the "Mechanic" position, in fact, your time continues to accrue in both positions. Lead and Mechanic.

If you have time in both positions, and you are bumped, you exercise your seniority in that position first. You can't get bumped as a Mechanic, and bump a Lead just because you have Lead time. You have to bid the job first.

That is where the problem lies. The AMTs on the LUS side would have an unfair advantage over LAA AMTs since they knew from the get go - to start their Lead seniority ASAP - if only for a bid or two. I don't even like the guys in tech service having their own seniority list - that is complete BS. AMT seniority should be the rule of thumb when deciding pecking order. It is the only fair way to not screw an AMT out of their title seniority.

 

[bigjets]

Let management change the shift swapping rules at the line and see if there isn't plenty of "whining"

Absolutely, just another way the TWU hasn't looked out for our interests.

You want to hear whining, even a rumor of a CS policy change and all the Dallas commuters have a cow. That's why we need it on our contract, like the pilots and FAs.

Talking to these former AFW guys they didn't care too much about a CS policy, they would just come in late or take a vacation day, but now that they work at a line station, they appreciate a CS policy that gives you flexibility, it takes about 27+ years of seniority to be on dayshift, and of course our days off rotate, for now.

 

[Real tired]

That is where the problem lies. The AMTs on the LUS side would have an unfair advantage over LAA AMTs since they knew from the get go - to start their Lead seniority ASAP - if only for a bid or two. I don't even like the guys in tech service having their own seniority list - that is complete BS. AMT seniority should be the rule of thumb when deciding pecking order. It is the only fair way to not screw an AMT out of their title seniority.

I agree. And that's why this issue is in front of a judge. And because the quality Association we voted on........... (Oops, I mean FORCED on us) can't make a decision on this.

If the arbitrator rules in favor of our method, then yes, a Lead (CC) for LUS wll have an unfair advantage. But, if the arbitrator rules in favor of the LAA method, then your CC's will have the advantage.

But with US, no AMT ever loses his or her title seniority. You always accrue.

And that was a big issue with the MOC people when they decided to close the MOC here in PIT. When the people came to the new DFW building, they started losing one day of Mechanic seniority for every day they were in the MOC premium position, even though they had their own seniority list.

Which ever way they decide, there's going to be a whole lot of people with their panties in a bunch. Remember what they said at the beginning on this merger thing....."adopt and go" !!!!!!

 

[Vortilon]

I agree. And that's why this issue is in front of a judge. And because the quality Association we voted on........... (Oops, I mean FORCED on us) can't make a decision on this.

If the arbitrator rules in favor of our method, then yes, a Lead (CC) for LUS wll have an unfair advantage. But, if the arbitrator rules in favor of the LAA method, then your CC's will have the advantage.

But with US, no AMT ever loses his or her title seniority. You always accrue.

And that was a big issue with the MOC people when they decided to close the MOC here in PIT. When the people came to the new DFW building, they started losing one day of Mechanic seniority for every day they were in the MOC premium position, even though they had their own seniority list.

Which ever way they decide, there's going to be a whole lot of people with their panties in a bunch. Remember what they said at the beginning on this merger thing....."adopt and go" !!!!!!

I don't see how you come to the conclusion an AA crew chief would have an advantage if the arbitrator rules to keep the LAA CC seniority policy. It's simple, your AMT time is all their is to it. I wouldn't want to be bidding behind some guy with less AMT seniority than me just because I decided to become a CC later in my career. It's not as if most of us haven't filled in as a crew chief - getting pre-qualified etc.

 

[MetalMover]

I agree. And that's why this issue is in front of a judge. And because the quality Association we voted on........... (Oops, I mean FORCED on us) can't make a decision on this.

If the arbitrator rules in favor of our method, then yes, a Lead (CC) for LUS wll have an unfair advantage. But, if the arbitrator rules in favor of the LAA method, then your CC's will have the advantage.

But with US, no AMT ever loses his or her title seniority. You always accrue.

And that was a big issue with the MOC people when they decided to close the MOC here in PIT. When the people came to the new DFW building, they started losing one day of Mechanic seniority for every day they were in the MOC premium position, even though they had their own seniority list.

Which ever way they decide, there's going to be a whole lot of people with their panties in a bunch. Remember what they said at the beginning on this merger thing....."adopt and go" !!!!!!

Real, is it true that a LUS Lead keeps accruing his LEAD seniority even if he steps down from that position?
If this is the case, I don't see how that is fair. First you have a mechanic start his /her Lead seniority anew in the first place, but when he/she decides to step down, they keep accruing? Doesn't seem fair when a voluntary self demotion is involved.

 

[Rogallo]

DOH = problems eliminated!

I have worked longer for the company, therefore, I am senior.
The only logical option when combining workforces with too many variables.
Who ever came up with this occupational seniority crap anyway!

I await all the IGM replies!! Let me have it!

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Real, is it true that a LUS Lead keeps accruing his LEAD seniority even if he steps down from that position?
If this is the case, I don't see how that is fair. First you have a mechanic start his /her Lead seniority anew in the first place, but when he/she decides to step down, they keep accruing? Doesn't seem fair when a voluntary self demotion is involved.

The only time you would continue to accrue that seniority would be if you were bumped or laid off from that position and failed to exercise your seniority in that classification to its fullest extent.

If you chose to go from Lead to mechanic just to stop from going from days to mids, you would lose all the seniority in the lead classification.

For instance, a layoff of 5 lead positions was announced at the station. There are 10 leads. You are the number 5 lead in lead seniority. If you stay as a lead, the one spot left is Tue/Wed RDO on the mid shift and you may be there for 10 years so you chose to bump down to a mechanic position. You could then bump using your mechanic seniority to the shift and days off your choice, bumping the junior mechanic in that slot. You would then lose any accrued lead time and would have to start again with zero lead time if you ever chose to bid one. You would also not have any recall to any lead position since you no longer hold seniority in the classification.

This is what we had under IAM at NWA and at AMFA. It worked well and was generally liked. You also had the classification of Inspector and Lead Inspector. They each had there own seniority list. Although in order to bid a lead inspector, you had to hold inspector seniority. Just like to bid a lead mechanic, you had to hold mechanic seniority.

Vacation was always bid using classification due to the needs of the service. A lead would not bid with his crew and could not stop a mechanic from taking a spot of vacation based on date of hire. Overtime was the same way.

I could see if I can find an old contract, but the IAM has used that system forever. AMFA adopted it as well.

 

[High Speed Steel]

This is a new thing in Tulsa.... AA management is now using the base shutdown to screw people out of pay. Since Christmas and New Years are on Sunday this year they are forcing guys to take 5 days vacation for the shutdown week (Dec 26 - 30) and rolling Christmas and New Years to Jan 2 and 3rd. HIstorically guys have saved 4 days of vacation for that week and take the holiday as the 5th day. In some places they are not allowing that and forcing guys who have 4 days vacation left to take a day without pay! I looked all over the contract and could not find anything to support this travesty but a call to the TWU grievance office got a "They can do that brother." Is anyone else tired of this crap?

Oldguy. You should not accept the old adage of "They can do that brother". The current Local 514 board when taking office in July 2016 was afforded a handsome raise by a motion supported by the previous board which was approved by a vote of the membership at a regular membership meeting.

The current Local 514 board after the fact, believed that was not enough for their representation and voted themselves in "another raise" for their representation. Hold them accountable Oldguy! Force the answer you are entitled! Don't walk away with the old adage, "They can do that BROTHER" !!!!!