JACK 's message is reckless and irresponsible!

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Again...What's your point? In the real world it's necessary to act based upon actual conditions. If AWA actually wants any degree of "fellowship"...methinks it'd be a good time to start some dialog that at least allows for something past "Tough luck...Shove It!!!". Such only serves to garner "eastie" responses of "Oh Yeah!!??..YOU Shove It!!"..and nothing's accomplished for either side..or all of us a any approximation of a pilot group.

You've mentioned LOA ops conditions. Understand that to the vast majority of "easties"...there's no downside to continuing under such, and operating seperately, if it prevents a massive dump in seniority. This would not constitute "bad faith" in bargaining...merely the need to see a VERY generous contract proposal prior to ever voting such into effect. You Gents/Ladies have known the current management longer than we have..you tell us just how likely such an offer is?

Well how about this different phrasing of your fellowship argument. If east wants any degree of fellowship, wouldn't it be helpful to begin with something other than a bunch of threats? Maybe not you specifically, because after sorting through all these posts I'm kind of losing track of who said what, but the overall tone I'm getting is one of threats.

Its not fences I object to per se, but rather the overall sentiment I'm sensing of "you better give us fences or settle for warfare." Pardon me if my first reaction is to say go pound sand.

The key is attitude, that is what I'm personally objecting to. I certainly don't have illusions of grabbing anything from anyone.

 

[EastUS]

Because their present and past behavior proves they cannot be trusted to honor any agreements. They have all but admitted their strategy of pretending to participate in joint negotiations while dragging their feet unnecessarily.

The east has a long way to go to regain the trust necessary for anyone to bargain in good faith with them.

That's all very nice...and perhaps emotionally satisfying rhetoric...Now: what do you reasonably suggest that "we"...as a hopefully-to-someday-work-together pilot "group" actually DO?

 

[luvn737s]

I don't know, they're your fences to mend. Your MEC chairman and Merger committee got pis$ed and knocked them down.

 

[AWA320]

Well how about this different phrasing of your fellowship argument. If east wants any degree of fellowship, wouldn't it be helpful to begin with something other than a bunch of threats? Maybe not you specifically, because after sorting through all these posts I'm kind of losing track of who said what, but the overall tone I'm getting is one of threats.

Its not fences I object to per se, but rather the overall sentiment I'm sensing of "you better give us fences or settle for warfare." Pardon me if my first reaction is to say go pound sand.

The key is attitude, that is what I'm personally objecting to. I certainly don't have illusions of grabbing anything from anyone.

Because threats are all they know!!! We have been getting them for the past two years. Remember this is the game they asked for along with the referee they asked for!! Now the game has ended and they are crying that they were fouled back in the first quarter...

 

[EastUS]

Well how about this different phrasing of your fellowship argument. If east wants any degree of fellowship, wouldn't it be helpful to begin with something other than a bunch of threats? Maybe not you specifically, because after sorting through all these posts I'm kind of losing track of who said what, but the overall tone I'm getting is one of threats.

Its not fences I object to per se, but rather the overall sentiment I'm sensing of "you better give us fences or settle for warfare." Pardon me if my first reaction is to say go pound sand.

The key is attitude, that is what I'm personally objecting to. I certainly don't have illusions of grabbing anything from anyone.

Understood. I've no ill will towards any man getting irritated with threats...wouldn't be much of a man if he didn't. I..ummm...err...wasn't exactly of a "moderate" frame of mind for some time after the award's announcement, and it certainly "colored" my first days of posting. I'm just hopefull that something can be achieved to alleviate what otherwise looks like a bad situation for us all. Both "sides" have ample reason for umbrage taken...none of which does any of us any good. I don't have any perfect answer/solution, but we've got to do something as a group, or we'll flutter around as seperate, and easilly "destroyable" labor entities. The east feels tremendous outrage, and isn't likely to have any desire for a combined contract. The west has plentiful pilots feeling that any attempts to change anything per the Nic award's unfair, and imposible, and is apparently
furious at the east as well. Bottom Line =We've got big troubles to deal with.

Addendum per Attitude: Note that it took all of 3 minutes after I posted this for a "baiter" ("that way you get to keep what's yours."

Sorry man but it aint yours no more....)"

to fan the flames...sigh...we've got big troubles on both "sides" to deal with indeed. It increasinglly seems that it'd take a miracle of The Allmighty to bring our groups together.

 

[Barberpole]

Nah, fences can still be agreed to. That way you get to keep what's yours.
I'll take fences for 15 years Alex.

"that way you get to keep what's yours."

Sorry man but it aint yours no more....

That's all very nice...and perhaps emotionally satisfying rhetoric...Now: what do you reasonably suggest that "we"...as a hopefully-to-someday-work-together pilot "group" actually DO?

we negotiate a great contract. Then your junior fo's who are stuck in the right seat will make more money there than they would have if Airways had somewhow survived long enough for them to upgrade. It's been stated a million times but there are very few AWAers who want to bid back east. After the uproar over the last two weeks that number has probably already shrunk quite a bit.

 

[awausairtech]

Absolutely nothing is wrong with fences, that could have been a great idea. Its a shame your TEAM didn't attempt to use that concept, and instead went for broke by trying to screw the West pilot group.

How you can convince yourself that someone on furlough deserves a slot higher than a working pilot who brought a job to the merger is beyond me.

Your reps gambled and lost, when they could have been negotiating. Maybe you should ask them "what's wrong with some fences".

Well said! And a lot of Airline people see that same thing. B) As for this,(Maybe you should ask them "what's wrong with some fences".)IMHO do it very very nicely because if it was me and I knew you just tried to screw me over, well lets just leave it at this, Ask Nicely. Have a nice night.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

If AWA actually wants any degree of "fellowship"... me thinks it'd be a good time to start some dialog that at least allows for something past "Tough luck...Shove It!!!". Such only serves to garner "eastie" responses of "Oh Yeah!!??..YOU Shove It!!"..and nothing's accomplished for either side..or all of us a any approximation of a pilot group.

What a crock of you know what. When the the heck are the East Pilots going to stop demanding something for nothing? When the hell are you going to get past the "Too bad you were confused binding arbitration really isn't binding"
How about we rename it whining arbitration.

Where in the Merger Policy does it say that negotiations continue after the award is issued or that one side has the right to demand something from the other side?

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I'm just hopefull that something can be achieved to alleviate what otherwise looks like a bad situation for us all.

And what would that be? Oh wait I know you want the West to give up something that is now rightfully theirs because you didn't get what you demanded even though both sides going in knew they had no control over the award and that the award would be binding.

Demanding with threats and demanding while being nice. You still demand

 

[twoturnin]

going to be a show watching the EAST RC4 knothead controlled MEC try to get out of this one----the MEC has been controlled by "knotheads" for some time now----say about 18 yrs---I think were going to see just how much they--"RC4 bunch"-- wants to keep their high paying union jobs.

 

[Hawkhunter]

" ."

Sorry man but it aint yours no more....



And those kind of statments are what make my blood boil. None of you will be welcome out east. You have a complete windfall and you know it. That is why you dont want fences period. So go ahead steal our jobs you will be miserable out here.

 

[LCC_#1]

As an Eastie, I am sick and tired of the attitiude SOME of the East pilots have displayed. We can go round and round about this issue, but it IS over! You can work somehow in the future to make changes, but had the East MEC been intelligent in the slightest way, they would had seen the constant deterioration of respect towards the concept of senority.

I have had to ponder how I feel as an airline employee and I have a few thoughts.

I too was once 24 and brand new. I was hired at the perfect time and luckily have been able to always hold a line of time...granted still low in senority. We as f/a's in AFA took control of the senority issue by simply stating DOH in the bylaws. That was challenged by the AWA f/a's who sought to have that policy changed. Needless to say it was shot down as national AFA is pro DOH. The AWA f/a's tried to undermine the East f/a's by crying to AFA national for a change. THEY FAILED!! Did THEY whine? Oh yeah! Were they rude to Eastie? Some were. BUT they were NOT allowed to change the rules in the middle of the game. Unfortunately, my opinion of Doug Parker changed when it was learned his management team actually instigated the entire scheme.

The same has/is being done by the East ALPA MEC. National ALPA doesn't have a DOH policy because of the nature of the complexities of the entire left seat, right seat...different aircraft thing that most outside the pilot's group simply dont understand.

A f/a is payed the same rate no matter what a/c. As we all know, pilots are paid by the size of the a/c and position, so this is an entirely different situation. As much as I hated seeing 15-18 year pilots on furlough, I would dare say most of the furloughees have moved on. It IS unfair to expect the West pilots to sacrifice for the East pilots. Is it their fault for the poor managements that helped contributed to our demise as the old US Airways? Absolutely not!! I dare say half of the East pilots have no right to argue this decision as the Piedmont pilots were seeking the same protections as a more junior pilot group during the USAir/Piedmont merger and for THEM, it failed. Did they complain? Sure, but they got over it and moved on.

It is not beneficial to go the route of name calling or statements read here that suggest some conspiracy by the US East ALPA to somehow take over the pilot world by having DOH across the board. Having said that, the East ALPA needs to realize they have nobody to blame but themselves. They DID roll the dice and lost. But to go crying to the national ALPA because you lost when you AGREED to honor the final decision shows a lack of character. I am embarrased by their actions but can understand their plight.

The East ALPA can fight all they want, but they WILL meet the same fate as the AWA f/a's and you too will get shot down in your attempts to undermine the West pilots. It has been said over again, but it IS time to get over it and put that frustration into the energy you're going to need to fight the REAL enemy....MANAGEMENT!!

WE ALL need to understand that we are now playing into the hands of Doug Parker and Scott Kirby. Keeping us divided keeps us seperate and keeps the WORST of both contract in ALL labor groups. These two are fakes and liars and will say anything behind their boyish "Awe shukes" charm!

The EAST vs WEST CRAP must stop NOW!! This Eastie knows who the real enemy is and will ALWAYS welcome a Westie ANYTIME ANYWHERE!!

 

[700UW]

I am tired of AWA320 and him posting a thousand threads about the same topic, time for the mods to step in.

 

[LCC_#1]

I am tired of AWA320 and him posting a thousand threads about the same topic, time for the mods to step in.

I agree 100%!! I have pleaded with the moderators on yet another inflammatory thread started.

 

[Phoenix]

I am tired of AWA320 and him posting a thousand threads about the same topic, time for the mods to step in.

Yeah, I geuss every airline has their own USA320pilot.