BoeingBoy
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'it's High Noon' For Unions, Airline
- Thread starter BoeingBoy
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D
deano
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BoeingBoy said:
"My guess is that the unions aren't bluffing," Masters said.
I hope he's right, but___________
Some college Professor who the media loves to ask like he knows all when he knows about as much as I know, squat. I could write a paper too, would that make me an expert, someone the media loves to approach for "expert" advice. A psychic know as much as that guy does....
May God above be with all the employees of this once, and still (although shrunk) company.
As a US1, by speaking with all of you several times a week, from F/A's, G/A's, Captains (hell, US doesn't have any F/O's left on the property!), MX guys, etc., I can understand that if you need to shut the place down, it is probably in your best interests. The only airline I've flown the past 5 years is US Airways, and as such, I know what you've gone through.
If many of you feel that you would not be able to live on the new, imposed wages, than by all means, pull the plug - especially if this bankruptcy case is going to set precedents for the entire industry. I think that is the point that lots of people are missing. If the US labor force shuts the place down, they will in effect be saving the pay scales of their counterparts at AA, DL, UA, etc. If they don't strike over the new, imposed wages, their families won't be able to get by and neither will anyone else in the profession (the other majors will follow suit). Worse yet, US will still eventually fail based on their track record.
It comes down to this: US employees will have to deal with moral issues affecting many people around them. When it comes time to make that decision, think long and hard. Think about the prospects your company has if you agree to work for less, but also think about what your company has done to the great place we used to call PIT.
As a US1, by speaking with all of you several times a week, from F/A's, G/A's, Captains (hell, US doesn't have any F/O's left on the property!), MX guys, etc., I can understand that if you need to shut the place down, it is probably in your best interests. The only airline I've flown the past 5 years is US Airways, and as such, I know what you've gone through.
If many of you feel that you would not be able to live on the new, imposed wages, than by all means, pull the plug - especially if this bankruptcy case is going to set precedents for the entire industry. I think that is the point that lots of people are missing. If the US labor force shuts the place down, they will in effect be saving the pay scales of their counterparts at AA, DL, UA, etc. If they don't strike over the new, imposed wages, their families won't be able to get by and neither will anyone else in the profession (the other majors will follow suit). Worse yet, US will still eventually fail based on their track record.
It comes down to this: US employees will have to deal with moral issues affecting many people around them. When it comes time to make that decision, think long and hard. Think about the prospects your company has if you agree to work for less, but also think about what your company has done to the great place we used to call PIT.
BoeingBoy
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D
deano
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ISP said:
There is no thinking required...it's so bad many, myself included retired before our time just to keep our sanity. I still have a good 10-15 years to work but decided the cost of staying and putting up with it all was more then leaving and moving on. I am working for less money, after the latest cuts not a lot less and way better benefits all around and most important for the first time in almost 15 years, PEACE of mind which is priceless.
God help all the employees at U and other carries because what's happening to airline employees requires divine intervention to cope.
CynicalResAgent
Veteran
BoeingBoy said:
I say the plug needs to be pulled.
Low wages need to end here for the sake of the entire industry. I say I would rather suffer myself, have the company cease operations, make a stand for labor, and know that my counterparts in other companies will be just a little better off.
I think this is the end result of a very crazy pricing system, the majors had taken advantage of the system and now the pendulum swings the other way to an extreme.
The publics demand for ridiculously low fares is insane. 29 dollars RDU to PHL????? that's moronic. Flying should never be cheaper than driving, hell a Taxi from Chapel Hill to the RDU airport probably is over 29 dollars. The time benefits of flying should make that route atleast worth twice that. Now I agree the old pricing system was equally out of balance when that fare was probably a walk up of 989 bucks one way, but why go to dirt cheap fares?
I think we should rename "Go-Fares" to "Well-Fares"
I mean they'll end up putting the employees on Wellfare, and most people on wellfare can afford them......Think about it, that would make Seth the "Well-Fare Guy"!!!! it has a nice ring to it....
D
deano
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BoeingBoy said:
My bet: U is finished. . . . . . . .hope I'm wrong for the people who want to stay, but Eastern smelled just like this, and U still has the same flawed management team in place hoping to turn around multiple failures and forever saying we miscalculated, we need more when the well is already dry .....say good night John Boy.
youngblood
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ISP said:
LaBradford22
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I like this thread because it gets to the heart of the matter, and underscores the reason why I don't think US Airways will survive this time around.
Disclaimer - I am a management employee for another airline.
As a corporation, you must perform a balancing act. You must provide a viable product or service for your customers, you must provide a viable living for your employees, and you must provide a viable return on investment to your shareholders. Absent any one of these things in the short-term, your business suffers. Absent any one of these things for the long-term, your business ceases to exist.
At some point, after round upon round upon round of concessions, airline jobs cease to be viable means of employment. In the case of US Airways, are you going to try to tell me that $7 per hour to work the airport ticket counter is a viable job? $7 per hour to live in PIT or PHL? $7 per hour to put up with abuse from irate passengers over situations which you typically have absolutely no control? Are you serious?
The value that an employee receives from many of these jobs at US Airways after this next round of concessions will be less than that same employee could receive elsewhere - as someone pointed out, it is less than someone could receive even on state unemployment benefits. Why, then, would any individual in his right mind choose to continue working that job? Throw in other slaps in the face that these employees have to see and deal with on a daily basis, such as golden parachutes for failed senior management, and it's really more than a human being can or should be asked to bear by an employer.
The fact of the matter is, the business model at US Airways just doesn't work today. US Airways is not big enough to compete with the bigger legacy carriers who can flaunt substantial international networks and significant economies of scale. At the same time, US Airways has a lot of the same inefficiencies from a cost standpoint that these legacy carriers possess - the hub-and-spoke model, a myriad of incompatible fleet types, an overly complex and outdated fare structure, and so on. US Airways can't compete with the Americans and Northwests of the world on a revenue basis, and they can't compete with the Southwests and Airtrans of the world on a cost basis. They are stuck in the middle.
And, for a variety of reasons, there is no "quick fix". You can't make US Airways into the mold of Southwest or any of the others over night. Airplanes are long-term assets, gate leaseholds are long-term arrangements, you train employees for what you hope will be long-term assignments. You can't simply change all of this on a dime. And, for the reasons I stated above, you can only go to the well for employee concessions so many times. US Airways has already gone there twice, and now they want to go again.
Now, for the pilots, it makes sense that they would concede a great deal in order to keep the company alive. They have a very good job with a very nice income and very nice benefits and a unique lifestyle. It's a pretty sweet deal, even after some concessions. And with the seniority system in place at all other airlines out there, a pilot cannot simply make a lateral move to another airline. Simply put, the pilots have a lot to lose.
Every labor group aside from the pilots does not have that much to lose. Mechanics also make a pretty good salary, but they have skills that are much more easily transferable (i.e. to an auto body shop), and they also typically face a much shorter seniority scale. In five years, an airline mechanic could be back to the top of the pay scale at another airline. It would take a pilot much longer than this with a 12-year pay scale and many seat progressions necessary, plus the forced retirement at age 60 by the FAA. No other major labor group at an airline makes enough money to make the job indispensable. A flight attendant, ramp worker, ticket agent, reservations representative - all of these groups could, for the most part, replace their income somewhere else fairly quickly. Many of them are not even the primary breadwinner in their household. The job is not a life-or-death thing to them.
When an employer needs its employees more than the employees need the employer, and the employer is struggling so much in its business that it needs employees to step up to the plate - again - and take significant concessions, the employer is in big trouble.
In a nutshell, that, friends, is why US Airways will not survive this crisis.
My best wishes to all in these trying times for our industry.
Disclaimer - I am a management employee for another airline.
As a corporation, you must perform a balancing act. You must provide a viable product or service for your customers, you must provide a viable living for your employees, and you must provide a viable return on investment to your shareholders. Absent any one of these things in the short-term, your business suffers. Absent any one of these things for the long-term, your business ceases to exist.
At some point, after round upon round upon round of concessions, airline jobs cease to be viable means of employment. In the case of US Airways, are you going to try to tell me that $7 per hour to work the airport ticket counter is a viable job? $7 per hour to live in PIT or PHL? $7 per hour to put up with abuse from irate passengers over situations which you typically have absolutely no control? Are you serious?
The value that an employee receives from many of these jobs at US Airways after this next round of concessions will be less than that same employee could receive elsewhere - as someone pointed out, it is less than someone could receive even on state unemployment benefits. Why, then, would any individual in his right mind choose to continue working that job? Throw in other slaps in the face that these employees have to see and deal with on a daily basis, such as golden parachutes for failed senior management, and it's really more than a human being can or should be asked to bear by an employer.
The fact of the matter is, the business model at US Airways just doesn't work today. US Airways is not big enough to compete with the bigger legacy carriers who can flaunt substantial international networks and significant economies of scale. At the same time, US Airways has a lot of the same inefficiencies from a cost standpoint that these legacy carriers possess - the hub-and-spoke model, a myriad of incompatible fleet types, an overly complex and outdated fare structure, and so on. US Airways can't compete with the Americans and Northwests of the world on a revenue basis, and they can't compete with the Southwests and Airtrans of the world on a cost basis. They are stuck in the middle.
And, for a variety of reasons, there is no "quick fix". You can't make US Airways into the mold of Southwest or any of the others over night. Airplanes are long-term assets, gate leaseholds are long-term arrangements, you train employees for what you hope will be long-term assignments. You can't simply change all of this on a dime. And, for the reasons I stated above, you can only go to the well for employee concessions so many times. US Airways has already gone there twice, and now they want to go again.
Now, for the pilots, it makes sense that they would concede a great deal in order to keep the company alive. They have a very good job with a very nice income and very nice benefits and a unique lifestyle. It's a pretty sweet deal, even after some concessions. And with the seniority system in place at all other airlines out there, a pilot cannot simply make a lateral move to another airline. Simply put, the pilots have a lot to lose.
Every labor group aside from the pilots does not have that much to lose. Mechanics also make a pretty good salary, but they have skills that are much more easily transferable (i.e. to an auto body shop), and they also typically face a much shorter seniority scale. In five years, an airline mechanic could be back to the top of the pay scale at another airline. It would take a pilot much longer than this with a 12-year pay scale and many seat progressions necessary, plus the forced retirement at age 60 by the FAA. No other major labor group at an airline makes enough money to make the job indispensable. A flight attendant, ramp worker, ticket agent, reservations representative - all of these groups could, for the most part, replace their income somewhere else fairly quickly. Many of them are not even the primary breadwinner in their household. The job is not a life-or-death thing to them.
When an employer needs its employees more than the employees need the employer, and the employer is struggling so much in its business that it needs employees to step up to the plate - again - and take significant concessions, the employer is in big trouble.
In a nutshell, that, friends, is why US Airways will not survive this crisis.
My best wishes to all in these trying times for our industry.
LaBradford22
Bravo LaBradford22 and thank you! Spoken like a true scholar! You summed it up in a nutshell and if anyone ever spoke the truth, you have and with intelligent deductions. Bravo Bravo Bravo!!!!!
Now, can you wake some of these eternal snoozers up that continually post pipe dreams on this board???!!!!!
Bravo LaBradford22 and thank you! Spoken like a true scholar! You summed it up in a nutshell and if anyone ever spoke the truth, you have and with intelligent deductions. Bravo Bravo Bravo!!!!!
Now, can you wake some of these eternal snoozers up that continually post pipe dreams on this board???!!!!!
