If they are On Board, write em up

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Well, this west pilot doesn't like what he is seeing here. Writing event reports and crying to management is useless, and if anything, will only end up biting this guy in his own butt. Just something about tattletaling just doesn't feel right, no matter how one may feel someone else is acting.
 
Phoenix said:
So you had a little tissy and now you are here to get a shoulder to cry on. The next time you deadhead, if the FAs ask you to cleanup you seat before you get off the plane, be sure to let us know how much it upset you. :lol:
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You should see how most of the flight attendants leave the seats when they nonrev or deadhead. As a group, they have no room to talk.
 
snapthis said:
If you won't do your job, inconvenience and our passengers you are going to be written up. Remember that next time you are on board. You are not going to play games with our airline and get away with it. It is not going to be business as usual like it was at the old US Air. We are not going to put up with this type of non-sense.

I applaud this crew member for sending in a report. I hope few people will get to retire early after they get called in to explain their actions.

I'm getting tired of this "on board" non-sense.

Our inbound aircraft was delayed due to thunderstorms in the Charlotte area and eventually diverted. Our departure time kept getting delayed further and further.

After waiting around the terminal for over 2 hours, our aircraft was finally reported to be on the ground in CLT.

In an effort to expedite the turn of our aircraft and avoid further inconveniencing our 120+ passengers I proceeded down the jetway and on to the ramp to meet the plane as it arrived and get started on my pre-flight walk around.

Almost immediately upon setting foot on the ramp, a ramp agent (whom I assume was the ramp lead for that gate) approached me in what I interpreted as a hostile manner asking me what I was doing on the ramp. I informed him that I was there to meet the incoming plane and do my preflight duties.

As the aircraft approached the terminal area, he again approached me and asked me to leave "his" ramp. I was somewhat taken aback by this request and asked him to repeat. He informed me that he didn't want me in the way.

I offered to stand next to the terminal, some 40 feet away from the aircraft parking area to which he told me that he wanted me in the jetway and off the ramp so that I "would not be in the way of any of his crew" as they parked the aircraft.

I retreated back to the terminal. As a result, I was not able to re-gain access to the ramp until the onslaught of deplaning passengers were off the aircraft and out of the jetway. This caused a further delay of accomplishing my duties of pre-flight checking the aircraft.

Due to observing this behavior and the fact that my encounters with him had a borderline harassing and confrontational tone, I elected to report the incident to a supervisor.

In 12 years of working at America West/US Airways, I have never been asked to leave the ramp by a ramp agent.

In 12 years, any time I am present at the gate when the inbound aircraft approaches, I go down to the ramp to begin my walk around as soon as the engines are shut down in an effort to expedite the turn of the aircraft. There has NEVER been of question or problem of me proceeding in this fashion prior to this incident.

If there is a new policy in place that prohibits pilots from being on the ramp when an aircraft approaches the gate, it has not been brought to my attention. I request confirmation as to whether such a policy exists or is forthcoming.

Also, in both of my exchanges with this person, I felt that his behavior was aggressive, confrontational and borderline harassment and believe that further investigation might be warranted.
---------------------------------------------

Event report:

Due to a non-full flight, early departure and favorable winds, we arrived in Charlotte ahead of schedule in the early morning of June 7th.

We touched down in CLT 23 minutes ahead of schedule at 5:39 AM.

As we approached gate B4 we found the area to be blocked by cones. Inspection of ALL the other gates we could see revealed no cones blocking aircraft access to the J-line.

No rampers were present so we stopped short and waited. Eventually, rampers began moving around the gate area (very slowly) and none of them acknowledged that we were there. No hand signals were given.

At any given time there were 2 to 6 rampers present with no effort being made to move or communicate with us. At one point they all stood with their backs turned toward us and it looked like hands in pockets.

When one ramper removed the cones that were blocking us, another drove a tug and baggage carts across the J-line further blocking our progress.

We called operations to ask what was going on to which a voice replied "They are on board." We asked "What does that mean?" and the voice replied "They are on board for safety."

We do not know if the origin of the voice was from operations or another location.

In the end, we spent 9 minutes burning fuel while the rampers milled around, blocked, and stood with their backs toward us.

With all the flight information/tracking we employ in our operations and ACARS in-range communications I have no doubt that EVERYONE on the ground in CLT knew exactly when we would be there and were still not prepared when we arrived. In addition, they appeared to be intentionally delaying our arrival.

The behavior of the ramp personnel, operations personnel and potentially others on the radio was totally unprofessional and embarrassing. In addition, it caused the unnecessary waste of fuel.

Poor work ethics were exhibited by all ground personnel involved.

---------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

Sounds like they just didn't like you for some reason. :)
 
snapthis said:
If you won't do your job, inconvenience and our passengers you are going to be written up. Remember that next time you are on board. You are not going to play games with our airline and get away with it. It is not going to be business as usual like it was at the old US Air. We are not going to put up with this type of non-sense.

I applaud this crew member for sending in a report. I hope few people will get to retire early after they get called in to explain their actions.

I'm getting tired of this "on board" non-sense.

Our inbound aircraft was delayed due to thunderstorms in the Charlotte area and eventually diverted. Our departure time kept getting delayed further and further.

After waiting around the terminal for over 2 hours, our aircraft was finally reported to be on the ground in CLT.

In an effort to expedite the turn of our aircraft and avoid further inconveniencing our 120+ passengers I proceeded down the jetway and on to the ramp to meet the plane as it arrived and get started on my pre-flight walk around.

Almost immediately upon setting foot on the ramp, a ramp agent (whom I assume was the ramp lead for that gate) approached me in what I interpreted as a hostile manner asking me what I was doing on the ramp. I informed him that I was there to meet the incoming plane and do my preflight duties.

As the aircraft approached the terminal area, he again approached me and asked me to leave "his" ramp. I was somewhat taken aback by this request and asked him to repeat. He informed me that he didn't want me in the way.

I offered to stand next to the terminal, some 40 feet away from the aircraft parking area to which he told me that he wanted me in the jetway and off the ramp so that I "would not be in the way of any of his crew" as they parked the aircraft.

I retreated back to the terminal. As a result, I was not able to re-gain access to the ramp until the onslaught of deplaning passengers were off the aircraft and out of the jetway. This caused a further delay of accomplishing my duties of pre-flight checking the aircraft.

Due to observing this behavior and the fact that my encounters with him had a borderline harassing and confrontational tone, I elected to report the incident to a supervisor.

In 12 years of working at America West/US Airways, I have never been asked to leave the ramp by a ramp agent.

In 12 years, any time I am present at the gate when the inbound aircraft approaches, I go down to the ramp to begin my walk around as soon as the engines are shut down in an effort to expedite the turn of the aircraft. There has NEVER been of question or problem of me proceeding in this fashion prior to this incident.

If there is a new policy in place that prohibits pilots from being on the ramp when an aircraft approaches the gate, it has not been brought to my attention. I request confirmation as to whether such a policy exists or is forthcoming.

Also, in both of my exchanges with this person, I felt that his behavior was aggressive, confrontational and borderline harassment and believe that further investigation might be warranted.
---------------------------------------------

Event report:

Due to a non-full flight, early departure and favorable winds, we arrived in Charlotte ahead of schedule in the early morning of June 7th.

We touched down in CLT 23 minutes ahead of schedule at 5:39 AM.

As we approached gate B4 we found the area to be blocked by cones. Inspection of ALL the other gates we could see revealed no cones blocking aircraft access to the J-line.

No rampers were present so we stopped short and waited. Eventually, rampers began moving around the gate area (very slowly) and none of them acknowledged that we were there. No hand signals were given.

At any given time there were 2 to 6 rampers present with no effort being made to move or communicate with us. At one point they all stood with their backs turned toward us and it looked like hands in pockets.

When one ramper removed the cones that were blocking us, another drove a tug and baggage carts across the J-line further blocking our progress.

We called operations to ask what was going on to which a voice replied "They are on board." We asked "What does that mean?" and the voice replied "They are on board for safety."

We do not know if the origin of the voice was from operations or another location.

In the end, we spent 9 minutes burning fuel while the rampers milled around, blocked, and stood with their backs toward us.

With all the flight information/tracking we employ in our operations and ACARS in-range communications I have no doubt that EVERYONE on the ground in CLT knew exactly when we would be there and were still not prepared when we arrived. In addition, they appeared to be intentionally delaying our arrival.

The behavior of the ramp personnel, operations personnel and potentially others on the radio was totally unprofessional and embarrassing. In addition, it caused the unnecessary waste of fuel.

Poor work ethics were exhibited by all ground personnel involved.

---------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

It almost sounds like they knew you were a West :p
 
We'll call my reply "The View From 2D", This thread caught my attention and I'm not really sure why.

1. Even from 2D you can tell the ramp is a dangerous place. I was watching one time in PHL and I remember thinking "Jesus it's a wonder more don't get hurt or worse". Frankly I wouldn't do the job.

2. The first thing that struck me when I read the posts here was the child hood saying "Tattletale, Tattletale, Stick your head in the garbage Pail". I know a highly intellectual response :lol:

3. These kinds of disputes are a direct result of the Management style of US Airways. They have been IMO very good at creating Fiefdoms that fight among themselves instead of a unified effort against the policies of their employer.

4. I believe it possible if there were trust between work groups to work smart, fast & safe. A practice that would benefit the company with a variety of benefits. However see #3 as to why this will NEVER happen under the current US Management of divide, conquer and to hell with morale and the customer as well.

5. If the OP is a dreaded, evil Stepford "westie" then he/she will soon find out that writing up an east coast ramp or flight crew could be hazardous to their personal job satisfaction. NOT a cool thing to do. If from the East then arrogance has overtaken common sense.
 
ChockJockey said:
That's probably because most people aren't enforcing ramp procedure when it comes to pilots being on the ground. We were instructed that there are two groups of people that can be on the ramp unescorted without a SIDA badge: military escorts for HR's and pilots performing walk-around checks provided they stay within the "shadow" of the aircraft.

Buuut, sometimes you see pilots walking along the terminal to get to the smoking area or crossing the alley to another concourse. We're supposed to challenge them to produce a SIDA badge like anybody else who wouldn't be wearing one, but some will look the other way simply because they don't want to bother with making a pilot all fussy and belligerent (not difficult) i.e. "I'VE BEEN FLYING HERE FOR A DOZEN HUNDRED YEARS AND HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT, YOU ARE JUST BEING A JERKFACE LAZY RAMPAR" etc.

Now here's a hypothetical: A late inbound has just landed and will be at the gate in a couple of minutes. Johnny on the Spot Cap or F.O. has had his grande latte and wants to get a head start on the walkaround, tres above and beyond. Whilst milling around the bottom of the jetbridge not far from a concentrated clique of rampers he slips on an unattended patch of skydrol and, falling, breaks his nose on the last step of the jetbridge stairs. It becomes a BFD; paramedics are summoned, reports have to be filled out and all that, and of course management is going to pull the video to see what Actually Happened™. After it's been ascertained that the pilot was in clear violation of security policy, I, being the ramp lead, and the rest of my crew get written up for not following procedure in regards to the presence of an unbadged, aircraftless pilot on our gate. The city might even be nice enough to give us NOV's for the same reason. Couldn't happen? I'd be surprised if it didn't.

While the ramper in your situation maybe shouldn't have been so aggressive and confrontational (next time tell us beforehand if you're an emotionally sensitive person), if he asks/tells you not to hang out around his gate he probably has an actual reason for doing so, least of which is his simply following procedure.
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chock jockey,


Some years ago at DCA the chief pilot office put out a letter to the pilots advising that the pilots were gettiing in the cleaners way while the pilots were trying to get to the flight deck to do their jobs. The answer was simple back then and simple now. I will wait in the crewroom until somebody comes to tell me it is ok for me to board the aircraft of course the airplane will be late or later but hey at least we won't be gettiing in any other employees way!

Regards,


Bob
 
lynyrdskynyrd said:
Well, this west pilot doesn't like what he is seeing here. Writing event reports and crying to management is useless, and if anything, will only end up biting this guy in his own butt. Just something about tattletaling just doesn't feel right, no matter how one may feel someone else is acting.
Click to expand...
I agree. If something has to be said then at the appropriate time and ask the other employee what the problem is or state that you see a problem in a non-confrontational way. More often than not you will find out that there is more to the situation than you think.


Regards,


Bob
 
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