IBT vs IAM

[Snafu]

Are you psychic and know everything about me?

Apparently you dont.

Maybe they are psychic. Just like you appear to think you are by reading some of your posts. They wouldn't have to be psychic........your expertise is NOT within the scope of a licensed AMT/A&P mechanic. If it is, then why are you not out there with them? Or are you in the process of obtaining a license? You were in college. Did you receive a degree? If so, in what? Your spelling and grammer are not perfect either. And if I recollect correctly, this has been hashed out once before. You may be in deep with and very knowledgeable about the IAM and the contract and all that but you are not the all to end all. You so often post about facts. You also, heed your advice and be man enough to admit when you have made an error. A better person you will be for it. Good day!

 

[Bob Owens]

IAM repsonse to ibt wanting to keep getting cards and exclude Stock Clerks

Stock clerks are not part of the M&R classification as per the NMB.

I dont agree with it,but thats what they have ruled in the past.

 

[700UW]

I guess you have not read the US Airways IAM Certification have you?

Stock Clerks are on that certification and the same CBA as the mechanic and related and have been for over 40 years.

 

[Bob Owens]

QUOTE(delldude )

I Know this Is Not A Nationwide Shutdown But Some UNIONS Know How To DO IT RIGHT.!!!!

TWU
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/20/nyc.transit/

And as we speak the TWU International is trying to remove Rojer Toussaint, Local 100s President for calling the strike.

In the last two contract cycles the International has sided with management , against Local 100, in trying to get the members to accept inferior contracts.

The TWU has taken out ads in New York Labor papers criticizing Toussaint. The TWU is a company union and Rojer is threatening that reputation.

Local 100, because of its huge size-36000 members, and militant history, (they are New Yorkers after all), has a decent amount of power within the TWU. Even still, they have not been successful at bringing in reforms to the terribly corrupt TWU International which is currently under investigation by the DOL and is always at risk from the hostile International. The only thing that prevents the International from removing Toussaint is the fact that if they did the majority of members would probably leave the TWU and form a new union. Local 100 members have been dissatified with the direction of the TWU International for many years.

While Local 100 did a good job, despite the fact that their International did not support them you might find a better exampe of a strike done right by looking at the IBT strike against UPS.

 

[Bob Owens]

Then what is the objection that was filed all about???

Then why did the NMB rule that the Stock Clerks at AWA were not allowed under the M&R contract?? Just a thought, but maybe any transition agreements will steer the CBA more towards the IBT contract and that's why the NMB is looking at it. I don't know anything for sure but.....

When you say "certification" what is it that you are referring to??

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

The NMB doesnt care who is under what contract. It cares about class and craft. Different class and craft groups could be under the same contracts and groups within a class and craft could be under different contracts, we see it all the time.

By mixing and matching, unions use this to thwart representation drives.

For instance the TWU at AA has certain maintenance functions performed by workers under the fleet service contract. When AMFA filed with over 9000 cards for an election at AA the TWU and AA said that they needed to include the 3000 jobs that were under the Fleet service contract. The catch is those people who are on those jobs changes from bid to bid so they move in and out of the "classification".

So despite the fact that the NMB says this work is part of the M&R class and craft, contractually they are fleet service workers in a seperate class and craft.

 

[Bob Owens]

I guess you have not read the US Airways IAM Certification have you?

Stock Clerks are on that certification and the same CBA as the mechanic and related and have been for over 40 years.

It doesnt matter.

Class and craft as determined by the NMB does not go by how the unions and companies organize their contract groups.

Just because the NMB certified two groups at the same time and they are under the same contract that does not mean they are the same class and craft.

 

[700UW]

At US they are the same class and craft. It was not two seperate organzing drives or two seperate r-#s, all the same certification.

 

[Bob Owens]

At US they are the same class and craft. It was not two seperate organzing drives or two seperate r-#s, all the same certification.

Thats your position. We will see what the NMB says.

 

[700UW]

No,

That is how the R# was assigned and how it reads.

Don't let the facts get in your ways.

 

[gonzo]

Are you psychic and know everything about me?

Apparently you dont.

Did I say I know everything about you 7. Ahhhh....there you go again adding to others statements...AGAIN.

 

[Bob Owens]

No,

That is how the R# was assigned and how it reads.

Don't let the facts get in your ways.

So? Lets say a new union started a drive to get every employee at a non-union company organized. THe group included mechanics, baggage hanclers, flight attendants and agents. They had an election and the union won and they were all covered under one contract. Are you claiming that since they all became union and are all under the same contract that they are now considerd one class? Lets say after a few years the F?As decided to leave and form their own union, are you saying they cant?

Why would the Stock clerks at USAIR be part of the M&R class and craft and not at other carriers?

 

[Bob Owens]

That's a helluva question Bob! For the great unwashed masses out here in non-union land would you mind gving a brief education on class & craft? Also perhaps how other airlines, NMB define these issues?

This stuff just confuses me to a certain extent, so any insight you could provide would be helpful.

Unfortunately when it comes to the NMB things get more confusing the more you dig but basically what it comes down to is this;

The RLA was put in place in 1926 because numerous strikes in the Railroad industry were hurting commerce.

You see while the Railroads were pretty effective at busting unions they just kept popping up. So they may bust the union in NY only to have one in OHIO go on strike and after they busted them a new group would pop up in Chicago and before they got done with them another one would pop up in NY. Any group along the line could shut it down, even if it was temporary. This created an intolerable situation for the fat cats.

In order to prevent this the RLA was formed and with it the National Mediation Board, NMB. Their job is to make workers believe they have certain rights and protections and, most importantly, to keep things moving. So the NMB made a pact that was favorable to companies and big unions but weakened the workers. Workers were now very restricted from using their labor to make gains. In exchange for pretty much giving up the right to strike unions were given a closed shop, guaranteed dues flow.

Class and craft has to do with how workers become unionized. Instead of workers being organized by location they were divided up into class and craft depending on what type of work they did. In order for any class of workers to get a union the entire class and craft had to be organized. Only larger unions had the resources to travel cross country and organize.

So if mechanics in New York want a union they have to convince mechanics across the country, and anyone else who the NMB determines is in their class and craft, that they should join the union too, even though conditions could vary greatly depending on geographic location. If there is no union in place they only need to get a little more than a third of the "class and craft" to initiate a representational election. If there is a union in place they need to get 50%+1. If they dont get at least half plus one of those elibible to vote across the entire country to vote, they dont get a union.(Imagine if we had the same standards for politicians?!)

Here is another catch, the NMB will not tell mechanics which workers are part of their class and craft until after they file, thats why it varies from time to time. Pilots and Flight attendants are pretty much the only clearly defined groups. This little gotcha is what also helps buy the loyalty and cooperation of the unions to the NMB,it makes it very hard for workers to replace unions that are in bed with the company. Once a union files for an election and its determined that they did not have enough cards to call for an election they can not file again for another year. A year gives the union and the company plenty of time to weed out anyone that threatens their little deal.

The NMB, remember their primary duty is to keep things moving, will often tweek things in order to thwart raids. They mediate between unions and companies so if both parties come to them and say how well they have worked things out-ie-no interuptions to commerce- and this new organization is trouble-ie-disruptions, strikes etc, the NMB will alter the class and craft as much as they can in order to maintain the status quo. In some cases the NMB has allowed companies to add the names of dead people, retired people and people who never even worked for the company to be included on the eligibility list in order to prevent an election. Its hard enough to get a majority of people to vote, let alone dead ones.

Hope I didnt stray off too far and I hope it helps.

 

[delldude]

The NMB, remember their primary duty is to keep things moving, will often tweek things in order to thwart raids. this is very interesting They mediate between unions and companies so if both parties come to them and say how well they have worked things out-ie-no interuptions to commerce- and this new organization is trouble-ie-disruptions, strikes etc, the NMB will alter the class and craft as much as they can in order to maintain the status quo. In some cases the NMB has allowed companies to add the names of dead people, retired people and people who never even worked for the company to be included on the eligibility list in order to prevent an election. Its hard enough to get a majority of people to vote, let alone dead ones. hmmm...just like the democrats..

 

[700UW]

IAM District 142 Update

 

[AIRWOMAN]

IAM District 142 Update

Has the IAM responded???