IBT/UAL contract rejection, what does it mean to us at AA?

[WeAAsles]

How many weeks of negotiating and all they agreed to is bulletin boards, uniforms and fitness for duty?

Are you sure that's all they've done or agreed to? Any clue how many proposals they've passed back and forth so far?

 

[Buck]

Thanks for proving my point 100%.
 
Because you have to as a condition of employment.

In your very own statements you divulge the purpose of Social Industrial Unionism . Forcing workers to join as a condition of employment?
Why not create an environment where they become members because it is the best way to go.
if you just removed the "as a condition of employment" would the employees still want to join your union?  
I would if you would earn the right to represent. But with the "Closed Shop",you don't have to earn anything and it is obvious 
just through the creation of the Association, promising a vote and then not having one because the membership cannot do anything about it.
Surely the AFL-CIO had their representatives in play when the representation of the union at the new American should have gone to the TWU.
 But you took the right of the workers away again. 
 
It is hypocritical to assert that someone on this forum won't answer a question or is rude when you are infamous for the very same thing.
 
It is obvious that you have a lot of knowledge and experience in those areas you have been assigned within the hierarchy.
 
But you are rude.

 

[Kev3188]

Absolutely NOT knocking Peterson. I've loved his updates and personally appreciate his perception.
As for the leaders trying to apply public pressure, I just think it's still a little bit early maybe?

When's the right time, then?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Appreciate it but my comment was aimed at Oldguy. So tired of hearing how much better fleet has it than maintenance. Give it a rest. Talk about beating a dead horse!

Ohhhh so I'm just supposed to shut up and take it?  No longevity and half sick pay going on 14 years now?  Well you can stuff it where the sun don't shine.  Fleet or stores didn't take near the concessions we did but that's ok with you right?  As long as it ain't you that gets hosed.  AMTs should have never lost anything that others didn't and damn well should have gotten it back in 2012.  It just makes my point the the TWU doesn't give a flip about AMTs and the rank and file FS doesn't either.  How about Fleet gives up those things for the next 13 years and AMTs get it back?  You ok with that?  Wrong is wrong and you are not going to stop hearing about it.  Put me on ignore if it bothers you.  This is why AMTs need to get away from fleet service. 

 

[700UW]

Oh poor Buck, you still don't get it.

You are not forced to join a union, you can become a dues objector.

And AMFA has closed shops at AS and WN, and you must pay dues to work there.

How can that be if AMFA isn't an industrial union?

 

[WeAAsles]

When's the right time, then?

Chess is a subtle game when you move out your first pieces. You have to build to a more aggressive play. If you move the Queen out too soon she could be captured and you may lose the ability to say MATE.

Again it's just my opinion but I'm not sure we're past the pawns stage just yet?

 

[Kev3188]

True, but ironically, sometimes the most subtle move is to launch a (proverbial) haymaker first...

 

[WeAAsles]

Ohhhh so I'm just supposed to shut up and take it?  No longevity and half sick pay going on 14 years now?  Well you can stuff it where the sun don't shine.  Fleet or stores didn't take near the concessions we did but that's ok with you right?  As long as it ain't you that gets hosed.  AMTs should have never lost anything that others didn't and damn well should have gotten it back in 2012.  It just makes my point the the TWU doesn't give a flip about AMTs and the rank and file FS doesn't either.  How about Fleet gives up those things for the next 13 years and AMTs get it back?  You ok with that?  Wrong is wrong and you are not going to stop hearing about it.  Put me on ignore if it bothers you.  This is why AMTs need to get away from fleet service.

I've already said before that I'm willing to trade you for your base wages if you want?

You focus on just one or two items. I gave up a TON of things in 03 too buddy.

And it was all the exact same losses by percentage to workgroup that each of us took. You just can't or refuse to believe that.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I am pretty sure most , if not all of us knew the pay was the same throughout the system when we hired on, yet we accepted the job.

I don't see any basis for the argument of making pay different in different stations, and it gets murky.
What formula do you use?

The main discussion should be why, after almost a year after being certified as the representative Union, the Association still doesn't have anything for us to vote on?

Or, more to the point, why aren't they at the table every day until it gets done?

The simple answer is that the IAM is trying to jam the IAMNPF up our poop chutes and also want to take fleet and stores seniority with them into AMT group.  I have said it's simple.  Just put it to a vote of the entire membership.  But we don't get to vote on anything anymore.  

 

[Kev3188]

Ohhhh so I'm just supposed to shut up and take it?

Nope, you're supposed to get rid of the incompetent people that brought those terms back for a vote, make sure your current NC is both serious and able to deliver, and join the fight for a better tomorrow for everyone.

 

[WeAAsles]

True, but ironically, sometimes the most subtle move is to launch a (proverbial) haymaker first...

I think that concessions comment on the last update and now the Peterson letter was a haymaker they didn't expect?

I saw them bambozzel the Pilots and FAs by wanting them to be silent and then when things got a little touchy the company spoke directly to the members bypassing their negotiators.

Not going to happen this time unfortunately for them.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I've already said before that I'm willing to trade you for your base wages if you want?

You focus on just one or two items. I gave up a TON of things in 03 too buddy.

And it was all the exact same losses by percentage to workgroup that each of us took. You just can't or refuse to believe that.

Your math is severely flawed as usual cupcake.  You lost 15% pay, we lost 17.5%.  On top of that we lost the longevity and sick pay while you kept those two items.  I'm sure you'd take my pay for what you do and the problem is that you are determined to get my pay for what you do while I get nothing.  You have just proven you don't have the math skills required for my job by saying we all lost the same percentages when it is obvious AMTs lost much more.  Now go take a math class so you can do basic calculations.  I know your hero Jim Little told you everyone lost equally but that was just another of his lies.  All we want is to get what other airlines pay their AMTs.  Obviously people like you are going to do whatever they can to prevent that.  But that's ok.  Maybe someday the AMTs will wake up and send this association packing.  

 

[WeAAsles]

Your math is severely flawed as usual cupcake.  You lost 15% pay, we lost 17.5%.  On top of that we lost the longevity and sick pay while you kept those two items.  I'm sure you'd take my pay for what you do and the problem is that you are determined to get my pay for what you do while I get nothing.  You have just proven you don't have the math skills required for my job by saying we all lost the same percentages when it is obvious AMTs lost much more.  Now go take a math class so you can do basic calculations.  I know your hero Jim Little told you everyone lost equally but that was just another of his lies.  All we want is to get what other airlines pay their AMTs.  Obviously people like you are going to do whatever they can to prevent that.  But that's ok.  Maybe someday the AMTs will wake up and send this association packing.

So BASE wages is the only thing that has economic value in our CBA's then huh fruitcake? Every item in our contracts has different costs associated with them that add to the full value. Your negotiators just agreed to do things differently than other groups. Why you can't understand that is beyond me.

And no. I want my own good pay for me. For you I'd like to see $60, $70, $80 per hour and thousands more jobs with spectacular benefits. I'd even love to hear you guys make more than pilots in some type of twisted universe.

Basically I wish you good fortunes. I doubt you do the same for me though?

 

[xUT]

In your very own statements you divulge the purpose of Social Industrial Unionism . Forcing workers to join as a condition of employment?
Why not create an environment where they become members because it is the best way to go.
if you just removed the "as a condition of employment" would the employees still want to join your union?  
I would if you would earn the right to represent.

IMHO, a closed shop is needed to ensure that 'all' members are represented equally.
You can't have 25% of a workforce paying for the other 75% in contract negotiations.
You will get inferior representation for all.
(In Theory...application is more precarious... )
 

But with the "Closed Shop",you don't have to earn anything and it is obvious 
just through the creation of the Association, promising a vote and then not having one because the membership cannot do anything about it.
Surely the AFL-CIO had their representatives in play when the representation of the union at the new American should have gone to the TWU.
 But you took the right of the workers away again.

Yes, that's true. Your Union screwed you. They also screwed your coworkers.
 

It is hypocritical to assert that someone on this forum won't answer a question or is rude when you are infamous for the very same thing.

That's because he is a socialist totalitarian. He can do no wrong. Just ask him...
Of the 15+ years on this BB, IIRC, 700 has 'openly' apologized (or something like that)three times.
 

It is obvious that you have a lot of knowledge and experience in those areas you have been assigned within the hierarchy.

But you are rude.

Rude?
Brother, you are way too nice.
Take Care and I hope you Guys N'Gals get a fair deal.
B) xUT

 

[Buck]

Oh poor Buck, you still don't get it.

You are not forced to join a union, you can become a dues objector.

And AMFA has closed shops at AS and WN, and you must pay dues to work there.

How can that be if AMFA isn't an industrial union?

What does AMFA have to do with the Association and the issues the New American Airlines ?
 
It is you that does not get it, you are living  in ancient unionism times.
 
The membership expects it's appointed leadership to perform with trust and not worry about someone who they are supposed to place their faith in for the present and their future. 
to steal their pension. Come on now explain how even borrowing money illegally is not stealing.
 
TWU members that elect to go Agency Fee become non-members and even if you do become a dues objector you lose membership privileges.
In a closed shop the employee must still pay dues for all activities except political.
 
 
TRANSPORT WORKERS UNION OF AMERICA POLICY ON AGENCY FEE OBJECTIONS
 
a. A current TWU member who chooses to become an objector, must first resign from TWU membership before she/he can file an objection through these procedures.