IAM

[High Iron]

628AU spake: "Maintenance is something very tough to judge from a management standpoint.  You need to have some benchmarks for production, yet you can never compromise safety"

Ah yes, Perhaps the thesis statement of this whole debate. The "results" are viewed in an abstract pie-chart sense...what it takes to make ( or break ) these results down in the trenches is often too far removed from those judging the results. Let me ask a couple of not-too-hypothetical questions:

1) On a particular day, not much stuff breaks...or there are less flights...or the problems that did occur were easy to troubleshoot- AND - any parts or other resources required were readily available...and to top it off, the weather is great....well it makes for a great day, operationally. John Q Manager says "Great job!"....but were we really all that great?

2) Another particular day, a murphy''s law validation day. You''re working short...planes are breaking every 30 minutes...the weather is lousy...no parts, or if you do have them they are at another station...the XYZ tool/test-set is out for calibration...you''re working a nagging repeat problem spinning your wheels troubleshooting...the normal tasks are difficult ( because, as a co-worker put it, "it just depends on whether the airplane is smiling or frowning" ) and stuff is going 0500 one after another. MOC/OPS is calling every 5 minutes asking for updates..and John Q Manager is getting gray hairs and making broad exhortations to clear ETR''s........Does this make us a bunch of schmucks?

Do any of these performance graphs ( MEL''s, ETR''s etc ) take this into consideration?

 

[to much time to quit]

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On 6/17/2003 4:48:04 PM tug_slug wrote:

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So true your statement is! Also in the iam''s eyes as long as that iam member is bringing in dues monies he or she doesn''t even have to be employed at Usairways. And as far as being skilled in a technical field such as aircraft maintenance those members are needed the most to raise the pay of the underskilled workers in these fields. Just compare your salary to the other employee groups under the iam and you can''t deny the truth. This is the very reason why the iam''s empire is crumbling at United and will possibly be gone at Usairways also. You don''t use your skilled technicians for bargaining chips for the other workers! Everyone is seeing the light and the end to this PATHETIC practice will be upon us soon. I HOPE.

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Yeah yeah yeah... Ive heard it all before.
If you want to talk about the truth lets talk about the outsourcing AMFA allows, how about the outrageously high insurance co-pays the mechanics over at Northwest have to pay?

Sure a Northwest mechanic may make more money but what good is it without job security?

Northwest is talking about getting concessions from their labor groups to the tune of $950 million. Lets see how well AMFA protects its members when Northwest starts with the "if we dont get the concessions we want we''ll file for bankruptcy" threat.

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Lets talk about the truth. The outsourcing amfa has? I never even mentioned the A-word. How about the industry leading contract just settled at United for the iam mechanics. ALL HEAVY MAINTENANCE work willingly negotiated away FOREVER by the frightened machinists of the iam. FACT! Have you checked your outrageous copayments for the crappy insurance you now have. A small 500% increase negotiated by yours truly. And job security??? What rock have you been living under? Usairways mechanics have gone out the doors in droves. You need over 14 years alone to hang on in clt. Wake up tug slug or those diesel fumes from that push back tractor will further damage your memory. You are fighting a losing battle trying to justify the iam''s very poor transactions for the membership. Just the truth, as sad as and unbelievable it all is its the poor pitiful truth.

 

[delldude]

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On 6/17/2003 3:00:05 PM LavMan wrote:

CLT base mtc numbers have been beating PITs for a couple of years now, go ask the company for the #s.

Second we all know about the hospital bay PIT has, if you dont work in Charlotte and we know you don''t our productivity has been way better then PITs.

Third when they closed GSO and INT they tried to put three more tracks worth of work to a hangar that all ready been operating on a 120% basis, all the bays were full, we were even doing work outside, you can''t put 10lbs of crap into a 5lb bag and make it work. The only reason you got the 737 work after 9/11 is that they did not want to shut down an entire mtc base.

Fourth, look at what has transpired in CLT:

A more modern facility.
A brand new line hangar, (where is the FSMC that you been touting for years?)
A brand new training center built in CLT, not PIT.

So if you live in a glass house don''t throw stones, all your statements are opinions, and the numbers which are facts show that CLT is outperforming PIT, if you don''t believe me go check the performance charts.

And by the way when they closed TPA who got the Overnight Airbii C1 thru C-10 checks?
Answer: CLT 3rd shift line maintenance hangar, not PIT.

Where did the three day C-11 Airbii check go when they closed TPA?
Answer: CLT Base Mtc, not PIT.

If PIT is so far superior why did the work go to CLT instead of PIT?

If PIT is so far superior why did US abrogate all the leases, lncluding base mtc?

If PIT is so far superior why did McMullen come out on the floor and say if you cant get the C-check on the 737s on time we will move the work to CLT?

Take off your rose colored glasses, life exists beyond PIT, the writing is on the wall, PIT is the next CVG.



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ya ya yi ya ya we got ure engine shop

 

[Baret4]

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On 6/17/2003 1156 PM delldude wrote:

ya ya yi ya ya we got ure engine shop​

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Hey Dude!

For some reason I like your humor!!! LOL

 

[tug_slug]

Lets talk about the truth. The outsourcing amfa has? I never even mentioned the A-word. How about the industry leading contract just settled at United for the iam mechanics. ALL HEAVY MAINTENANCE work willingly negotiated away FOREVER by the frightened machinists of the iam. FACT! Have you checked your outrageous copayments for the crappy insurance you now have. A small 500% increase negotiated by yours truly. And job security??? What rock have you been living under? Usairways mechanics have gone out the doors in droves. You need over 14 years alone to hang on in clt. Wake up tug slug or those diesel fumes from that push back tractor will further damage your memory. You are fighting a losing battle trying to justify the iam''s very poor transactions for the membership. Just the truth, as sad as and unbelievable it all is its the poor pitiful truth.



Dude where have you been? Take a good look at the industry. Can you say the word BANKRUPTCY? How about the word LIQUIDATION?

To much Time, when was the last time you went to a Union meeting, when was the last time you tried to make a change for the better instead of sitting behind a computer monitor *trying* to slam someone because their opinion differs from yours?

Your the type that cries, ####''s and complains but when it comes time to take the initiative you run like a wiped pup with your tail between your legs.

 

[delldude]

right on the money tug slug....right on.





slug,think this guy will be walkin' 'cause they outsourced contractually protected work or will he cross to protect his"severence"......time to choose whats more important,and i think i know where his heads at..

 

[tug_slug]

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Usairways mechanics have gone out the doors in droves.
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Speaking of going out the door in droves, Northwest hasnt even mentioned the word bankruptcy and look what their about to do the AMFA represented mechanics.

[url="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030618/185320_1.html"]http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030618/185320_1.html[/URL]

And the best the AMFA reps can say is "We consider this a clear violation of our contract terms and are considering the appropriate action to take," In the mean time 700 mechanics are gone FOREVER.

 

[to much time to quit]

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On 6/18/2003 9:00:59 AM delldude wrote:


right on the money tug slug....right on.





slug,think this guy will be walkin'' ''cause they outsourced contractually protected work or will he cross to protect his"severence"......time to choose whats more important,and i think i know where his heads at..

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NO I and many of my coworkers would NEVER be scabs as you imply sonny boy. And as you should know by now their will not be any job action or strike with the frightened machinists as our representives. They will roll over when provoked and give the company whatever they want.And if and when we vote if the outcome is wrong we will keep on voting until the result pleases the iam. Don''t forget our dues monies will be replaced when midatlantic is up and running.Although we sacrificed nothing for this. YEA RIGHT! You and tugslug need to lay off the KOOLAID shooters and think about a support system for your weak spines. And one last point seeing you are so intelligent in union matters, what company hands out severance to employees on STRIKE. Think about it dude, THINK before you type fool!!

 

[tug_slug]

TMTTQ

Let me ask you this.

Do you honestly believe if AMFA were representing you during bankruptcy proceedings you would be better off?

Northwest is going to lay off 700 mechanics and AMFA cant stop that what do you think AMFA''s going to do if Northwest file''s for BK?

Im not a betting man but if I were Id say that when NW starts asking for concessions the company will get 99% of what they want. Why? Because AMFA knows if NW files for BK the union doesn''t stand a chance and with all the unemployed A&P''s out there AMFA knows better to even think about a strike much less go out on one!

You think by going to another Union its going to solve your problems, Ive got some bad news for you ... its only going to create more.

 

[Dark Wrench]

“Sure a Northwest mechanic may make more money but what good is it without job security?â€￾

I was furloughed months ago. When I was employed I was a victim of the “force majureâ€￾, and I also had the benefit thru “brilliant negotiationsâ€￾ and 2 votes of watching those grievances getting dropped.
So the way I see it is not only do U mechanics make less money, “Job Securityâ€￾ is more smoke and mirrors.

 

[to much time to quit]

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On 6/18/2003 331 PM tug_slug wrote:


TMTTQ

Let me ask you this.

Do you honestly believe if AMFA were representing you during bankruptcy proceedings you would be better off?

Northwest is going to lay off 700 mechanics and AMFA cant stop that what do you think AMFA''s going to do if Northwest file''s for BK?

Im not a betting man but if I were Id say that when NW starts asking for concessions the company will get 99% of what they want. Why? Because AMFA knows if NW files for BK the union doesn''t stand a chance and with all the unemployed A&P''s out there AMFA knows better to even think about a strike much less go out on one!
 
You think by going to another Union its going to solve your problems, Ive got some bad news for you ... its only going to create more.

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I could not predict what the outcome would have been with amfa. I do know exactly what we got with the iam. The facts are there and a large majority of the workforce is not happy with the unions poor performance even under the worst conditions. I could sit here and type example after example of lousy contract language that was NEGOTIATED for us. It was presented to the membership as a last and final offer from the company, but if you can find a union rep. honest enough to tell the truth,it was over 90% tenatively agreed to. That is FACT! They did not recommend a yes vote like they did at united because the bylaw was different in 2002. But everyone knows they wanted everyone to vote yes. And may I add that was 2 VOTES to get it right. We are all well aware that amfa will not come riding in on white horses and change everything and make this lousy 6 to 10 year contract go away. But I for one would never again want to be lied to from a union whom I paid dues to for over 18 years. I can''t filter the truth or lies coming out of northwest. But I know if the iam is saying it, its most likely a LIE. I do know what usairways has and I read the iam newsletter bragging at united that they have the leading contract in the industry in which they NEGOTIATED ALL OF HEAVY MAINTENANCE AWAY. Do you believe that?? All for now slug, keep up the good work at old LL 1976.

 

[delldude]

Deleted by moderator

 

[to much time to quit]

Delldude, You lost your composure. It probably was inevitable that this would eventually happen. It usually comes along within 6 to 10 months after your pride,dignity, and spine disappear. You can only fight the truth with name calling. Now head on back to your local lodge and send out some more lies to the membership. Also my super intelligent company/union boy, 18 years with the iam doesn't always mean 18 years senority. Keep replying and I'll pummel you with the truth,you are no match whatsoever. I WIN and you LOSE!!

 

[Smartest Loser]

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On 6/19/2003 929 AM to much time to quit wrote:


Delldude, You lost your composure. It probably was inevitable that this would eventually happen. It usually comes along within 6 to 10 months after your pride,dignity, and spine disappear. You can only fight the truth with name calling. Now head on back to your local lodge and send out some more lies to the membership. Also my super intelligent company/union boy, 18 years with the iam doesn''t always mean 18 years senority. Keep replying and I''ll pummel you with the truth,you are no match whatsoever. I WIN and you LOSE!!

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Wow, TMTTQ..You ran DellDude & TugSlug off the board. I guess they couldn''t take the heat when the TRUTH started to come out. Other people need to get the anti-cool aid serum fast. I have never seen the IAM lie so much and sell it''s memebers down the road. Keep up the cause.

 

[tug_slug]

Smartest Loser,

I stopped replying to this post because TMTTQ couldn't prove his argument unless he added some sort of derogatory remark in his reply.

The one thing Ive learned in life is there's no point having a debate with someone when their only defense is thru personal attacks.