IAM Withdraws from Labor Coalition

[wts54]

Your paycuts on the first ERP weren't going to be twice as much as the IAM
that is just false.Your group and management were actually going to be better off at the end of the ERP unlike the rest of the employees.Layoff's
are coming and that is a fact the rest of us have accepted.With regards
to playing hearts between flights I am never late for a arrival or departure since I have been on the line.Maybe I could get more departures
out on time(most are ontime)if we didnt have our union brothers refusing to fly for the most minor reasons like the summer of 2000 which if you really are a UAL pilot you did your part for the cause didnt you??After
that mess was all over with and you had your money and 20,000 people were trying to get a raise all you were concerned about was ontime departures
damn everybody else.I cant recall how many times during the summer of 2000 I heard from the cockpit that we will support you guys crap.
No my friend it was hurry up and release the brakes so you could start
the money machine.You do get paid after the brakes are released dont you?
Block to block.Now everyone is rushing to do a brake release asap.
Aviation as you know is a job that requires rules to keep us all safe so
maybe you better quit if you can mock other employees wanting to work in
a safe enviroment or better yet publish your flying line so we will know
when to avoid flying with you cowboy.
I am basically a happy person but I do disagree with the rest of the
crowd about what we should or should not do.Did I say I was going to Mr.Goodwrench or anything about 50.00 an hour I dont believe so.
And lastly my friend when Im at work Im about strictly business and doing it to the best of my ability to keep people safe as I can as if I was
putting my own mom on our aircraft.My finances are in order as much as they can be and unlike some people I am not SCARED of what UAL and our
Braintrust union leaders are doing.To those who get paid more they usually have more debts(houses,cars,toys etc.etc.)so it is logical therefore to assume certain people have more to lose than others.
I hope you enjoy flying the next flying job your going to get as soon as UAL tanks and BK THEY ARE A GOING.

 

[wts54]

After some more thought I think I have a perfect solution and its based
totally on fairness.Lets give ALPA members the same workrule and pay changes UAL wants to give IAM members.
Starting with pay an across the board 10.4% cut future raises cancelled
and replaced by 1.5% a year for the next two years.
Second regarding workrules UAL should be absolutely free without any restrictions to layoff as many ALPA employees as they wish.Now those
laid off employees can be replaced by non-union replacements in any amount
they deem necessary.Sounds terrible to me but that is exactly what UAL
wants to do to the mechanics.That was the first ERP if I am not exactly
jumping for joy I hope people understand.
All the vultures(stocks speculators) and my ALPA union brothers,and UAL
management all agree the IAM needs to make work rule concessions.I think
what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
After the IAM employees vote this crap down and UAL is Chap11 there will
only one piece of unfinished business left to take care of to keep
the ruling class from achieving their goals and that is a long strike
afterwards paid for with my unemployment money that you contributed to.
We will see what happens.I agree work rule changes need to be made,but they
need to apply to all.

 

[ualdriver]

******Your paycuts on the first ERP weren't going to be twice as much as the IAM
that is just false.Your group and management were actually going to be better off at the end of the ERP unlike the rest of the employees.********

How was ALPA and management going to be better off at the end of the ERP unlike the rest of the employees?

*******Layoff's are coming and that is a fact the rest of us have accepted.With regards to playing hearts between flights I am never late for a arrival or departure since I have been on the line**********

You may be on time all the time, great. However, at ORD in my experience, I would guess about 40% of the time, we have to physically stop the airplane and wait for a mechanic to guide us in. Even if we send updated on times. And again, from my experience, it is a rare occasion at an outstation where you have to wait one second to be guided in. But at our hubs......

*******I could get more departures out on time(most are ontime)if we didnt have our union brothers refusing to fly for the most minor reasons like the summer of 2000 which if you really are a UAL pilot you did your part for the cause didnt you??***********


Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot. The IAM never did ANYTHING after 2 years of negotiations to get their point across. Yup, no one did anything, it was business as usual. Mechanics were never consistently late to pushback and receive airplanes at ORD. No mechanics were fired for alleged sickouts and/or slowdowns in LAX and at a couple of other stations. What's that saying about glass houses and stones?


**********After that mess was all over with and you had your money and 20,000 people were trying to get a raise all you were concerned about was ontime departures damn everybody else.I cant recall how many times during the summer of 2000 I heard from the cockpit that we will support you guys crap.
No my friend it was hurry up and release the brakes so you could start
the money machine.You do get paid after the brakes are released dont you?
Block to block.Now everyone is rushing to do a brake release asap.
***********

What were we supposed to do? Make the IAM hurry up and negotiate for you? Sounds like your issues are with the IAM, not anyone else.


*********My finances are in order as much as they can be and unlike some people I am not SCARED of what UAL and our Braintrust union leaders are doing.To those who get paid more they usually have more debts(houses,cars,toys etc.etc.)so it is logical therefore to assume certain people have more to lose than others.************

I think your logic is quite wrong. I'm one of those people who get paid more and my situation is quite the opposite you are expressing. And I'm sure that there are plenty of people who get paid more who can afford to bank away cash to pay debt early and have quite a nice cushion to ride out a storm. I think it would be dangerous for anyone to assume that those who get paid more have more to lose than anyone else.

 

[wts54]

People in many offices sat down and added up the numbers it was posted
on skynet for pete's sake everybody realized the minute they saw it.You were
actually going to be ahead of the game a little.I didnt say by a huge amount.
Management was going to be able to offset the initial cut by a raise they
had coming next year iam or alpa didnt get that break.I was only pointing
this out because since alot of us are esop owners of the company the sacrifices can be acheived but I dont any group should be ahead of the game
at the end of any ERP unless we all are.Fair is fair.
In regards to your waiting for a guideman I can only take care of my
gate,but now so many people are retiring and not one person is getting
recalled to fill these spaces sometimes I have two gates and sometimes three.Los Angeles is a desert and after awhile in the sun and dry air I start to run a little ragged.Not to long ago I had two overnighters arriving
at the same time and one live trip I was trying to get done because for me personally the live trip comes first.I am almost 50 yrs old and I cant run
the 440 yard dash like I did when I was 20.People should meet their trip you know its the least you can do for the customer is not have them wait
for a guideman or jetway driver but UAL is not replacing the flood of people retiring.
Do you think you could have refused to fly any overtime during our negotiations that would have been a huge help.Thank you

 

[UAL777flyer]

Oh how quickly we forget. Everyone is always so quick to blame the pilots for the Summer of 2000. But what about the mechanic slowdown in the Fall and Winter 2000? Did we forget that already? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I seem to recall that we had to tear apart already closed flight schedules in order to increase our operational spare count from 11 to 31!!! This was due to a sudden increase in out of service aircraft. Write-ups dramatically increased. C Checks and SSR aircraft were suddenly not making it out of the hangar ontime. Sure, everyone will defend their position by saying that they were working to rule. Nobody is stupid enough to admit they took part in a job action. But, I think most are smart enough to see things for themselves, whether admitted or not. So I don't think the IAM's hands are clean when it comes to slowing down the airline's operation.

 

[gatemech]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/14/2002 11:46:13 AM UAL777flyer wrote:

Oh how quickly we forget. Everyone is always so quick to blame the pilots for the Summer of 2000. But what about the mechanic slowdown in the Fall and Winter 2000? Did we forget that already? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, I seem to recall that we had to tear apart already closed flight schedules in order to increase our operational spare count from 11 to 31!!! This was due to a sudden increase in out of service aircraft. Write-ups dramatically increased. C Checks and SSR aircraft were suddenly not making it out of the hangar ontime. Sure, everyone will defend their position by saying that they were "working to rule". Nobody is stupid enough to admit they took part in a job action. But, I think most are smart enough to see things for themselves, whether admitted or not. So I don't think the IAM's hands are clean when it comes to slowing down the airline's operation.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Oh how quickly we forget is right. Who didn't keep their promise? Who put an injunction on its employee's? Who got pay increases in good times?

It’s funny how the employee's are always the bad guys. The media won't even print the employee's point of view. When they do print about the employee's we sound like blood sucking vampires.

 

[Steiner]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/14/2002 8:28:22 PM gatemech wrote:

It's funny how the employee's are always the bad guys. The media won't even print the employee's point of view. When they do print about the employee's we sound like blood sucking vampires.




----------------
[/blockquote]

Get used to it, gatemech. If you get a chance, see if any older mechanics have old articles from earlier strikes. The press (who often has had nasty labor issues themselves) always lay into labor.

 

[gatemech]

Steiner,

Nothing to get used to. It's part of life in the airline industry or any other unionized industry.

 

[UAL777flyer]

gatemech,

Who didn't keep their promise? That wasn't my point. I wholeheartedly agree with you that Goodwin's lack of leadership is what led to those problems. But my point was that many mechanics are quick to point the finger at ALPA over the Summer of 2000, yet they forget the work slowdown that the mechanics initiated shortly thereafter. That was my point. And in those instances, the press should treat labor as the bad guys because what you're participating in is blatantly illegal.

 

[wts54]

But whatever the mechanics did pales in comparison to the pilots actions
during summer of 2000.The bad will and tons of extra work you caused people of all stripes in the ground operation will not be forgotten for
a long time to come.You guys worked people to death and you dont even have
the guts to admit it.Not to mention thousands of families,old people,honeymooners,people going to funerals etc. etc.To even suggest the
mechanics actions were on par with the pilots is insane.

 

[UAL777flyer]

wts54,

Firstly, I'm not a pilot. Secondly, my point wasn't that the mechanics action was on par with what the pilots did. But a job action is a job action. Just because the mechanic slowdown was smaller in magnitude than the pilot action doesn't change the fact that it was an illegal act that cost the company a lot of money and inconvienced our customers. To go from 11 spares to 32 entailed having to pull a lot of flying from already closed-out flight schedules, which cost UA a lot of money in revenue, as well as forced the reaccomodation of thousands of our passengers. So we can split hairs all day about which action was more hurtful. But the facts are that both actions were hurtful and both were illegal.

 

[kcabpilot]

UAL777flyer: You are quick to call these job actions but the fact is that those who had always been willing to go the extra mile simply were not willing to do so after the treatment that management gave them in 2000 (both Pilots and Mechanics) This is simple cause and effect and let me tell you that the effect was pervasive - it eventually got to everyone. The company really screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[wts54]

No way thats true.Whatever mechs were responsible for was a drop in the
bucket.

 

[UAL777flyer]

You can deny it all you want. Nobody is stupid enough to admit a job action. But a slowdown is a slowdown. And when you are forced as a company to go from 11 spares to 32 spares to cover the significant increase in out of service aircraft, it's pretty obvious what the cause is. See how easy it is to lay blame on others while you justify the harm your group caused to the company and its' customers? There is plenty of blame to go around for everyone. No group is immune. So let's stop the blame game and just put the past aside and work to fix what's wrong before it's too late.

 

[ExThunderGuppy]

wts54,
Didn't your mother teach you the proverb about people living in glass houses. You talk about the pilots and the summer of 2000, but I seem to remember the mechanics staging a little revolt. Didn't some get fired??? Also, do you remember about four years ago when ORD has the time card fiasco? If not, let me refresh your memory. Seems some mechanics were taking 4 hour lunches and when the company found out their solution was to make you guys clock out for lunch and then clock back in when you returned. Sound familiar? Some guys didn't like it: especially the guys that work around the C20-C30 gates. I have never in my life seen so many mechanics find so many pulled rivets on gear doors. I'll bet at least 70% of my flights were either cancelled or delayed while you guys wrestled with that issue. Funny thing is, after this little problem resolved itself, I have yet to have another mechanic find another pulled rivet.
The point of this is not to open old wounds, as you seem fond of doing. The point is that you guys have had, and continue to have, your share of issues. Please don't forget that when you start to point fingers.