Iam Strike Vote Soon....

[spacewaitress]

Simple. If enough people decided they are unwilling to work for such low wages so that the only dregs left applying are those airlines consider unqualified or undesirable for the job, they would raise wages to attract the better-qualified people back.

As someone else pointed out above, as long as people are standing in line for airline jobs at crappy wages, airlines will always consider their employees to be "overpaid," and the downward pressure and race to the bottom will continue.

Only when enough people decided enough is enough and vote with their feet will that change.

[post="264757"][/post]​

Well, that may happen in the long run. Since you are no longer here, you probably don't know that many people, not just those on this board, are voting with their feet or putting themselves in the position to be able to.

The ground people (ramp and mechanics) that I talk to seem to believe, rightly so, that they have no options. They are damned if they do vote for the (last) offer, and damned if they vote strike. They either vote themselves out of a job or vote to strike. Is there a difference?

But nothing is going to stop the downward spiral of wages, imo. That's years away and then they'll never be comparable.

 

[uafa21]

There has been no recent mention of any bank loans. What bank in their right mind is going to loan a bk company losing money like we are. We have given and given and still are losing. I wonder what the 1st quarter results are going to look like.

Tilton is now pushing for more foreign interest in US airlines. He knows something we don't. He knows this will be the only way to get Ua out of bk, an infusion of foreign cash.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Well, actually they are. We need them to provide the cash necessary to exit and sustain ourselves after bankruptcy. And a couple of months back, despite high oil prices and all the sabre rattling going on at the time, UAL found the banks necessary to exit bankruptcy.

[post="264824"][/post]​

No sir. Perhaps the banks were found but they won't put up the money.

So what event is necessary to cause the bankers to find the confidence in UA??

 

[ualdriver]

"There has been no recent mention of any bank loans." says uafa21.
"No sir. Perhaps the banks were found but they won't put up the money." says what.

Ah, yes. Let's go over this again. Banks WERE found, DO exist, and ARE willing to give us the money to exit bankruptcy unless something radically changes (hull loss, terroist attack, successful strike, etc.) as I have said repeatedly in previous threads. Don't believe me? Contact YOUR union rep or read one of many articles that came out concerning this topic.

United Gets Four Offers of Debt Financing
2/14/2005 11:07:00 PM

CHICAGO, Feb 14, 2005 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- United Airlines said Monday it has received four offers of debt financing worth as much as $2.5 billion to help the nation's No. 2 carrier emerge from bankruptcy.

United spokeswoman Jean Medina would not say which financial institutions had made the offers and said there was no schedule for when any final deal might be reached. Moreover, any such agreement would be based upon United realizing the $2.5 billion in cost savings the carrier has already laid out, she said.

"They are contingent on us completing the work we've identified in our business plan," Medina said.

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/ne...FEE19C348EF1%7D

Oh yeah. I keep forgetting. There are no banks willing to lend us money and there's no business plan.

 

[uafa21]

And the answer is : Banks WERE found. But what about now?

 

[ualdriver]

What about now? Well, the nasty stuff has to go down. I'm sure Tilton and our bankruptcy lawyers are intimately aware of what "the banks" want and are taking the steps necessary to meet their requirements. Hence the pension and contract issues we're having right now, among other isses that need to be settled.

 

[767jetz]

JP Morgan and Citigroup... Only the two biggest financial institutions in the WORLD.

They are calling the shots. They have the money. They are willing to finance United Airlines. Their terms are that UA must lower labor costs to the predetermined level (already done), Dispose of the pension liabilities (in the works, and one big step closer with the recent deal struck with the PBGC), reduce non labor costs (ie: leases, vendors, etc. also well under way) and increase revenue (as in reduce domestic capacity, raise fares where appropriate, and increase international capacity.)

It doesn't matter what we want or Tilton wants. The banks set up the hoops and we jump through or close up shop.

And for those that doubt the potential of UAL's route network once we're out of bankruptcy, did you notice that Air Canada has only been out of BK since September and just placed a huge order for widebody Boeings?

Post bankruptcy the handcuffs come off and we can act strategically once again.

 

[goingboeing]

More amfa BS. The losers decided to sue and a Federal Judge reviewed their accusations, found their claims ludicris and threw them out of his court!

[post="264767"][/post]​

That is just 1 judge's opinion and not a trial by jury to hear all the facts.
TWU,not AMFA, is the one who handed out the Vermont Plan papers at TUL to scare the people in voting for the concessions.

TWU lowered the standard of living for all airline workers!
TWU=Totally Worthless Union

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

When are we employess of the airline industry going to quit financing cheap tickets by allowing banks to dictate our wages and benefits?

 

[ualdriver]

When are we employess of the airline industry going to quit financing cheap tickets by allowing banks to dictate our wages and benefits?

[post="264885"][/post]​

Actually, I really don't think it's the banks that are dictating our wages and benefits. It's our friends at the low cost carriers that are dictating that. Our wages are being reset to the wages that their employees have been willing to work for over the past few years, and that bar has been set pretty low by those low cost carriers. The banks just want us to be able to compete with them. As the wages go at JetBlue, Airtran, Frontier, America West, etc., so do ours.

 

[FWAAA]

If an individual files for bankruptcy protection, expect the debtor's creditors to react violently if the debtor refuses to slash the wages of the household help, especially if that help is paid substantially more than the help of the nonbankrupt neighbors; same thing if you're an airline employing 60,000+ people at higher wages than some other airlines.

Going from bank to bank, hat in hand, asking for a billion and a half to exit Ch 11 is not an ideal time to resist the lenders' demands to slim down the spending.

 

[skyflyr69]

To have ANY affect on Tilton and his circus clowns, he has to KNOW that you have the WILL to put the company in liqudation. Anything less and he's going to call your bluff and bend you over the table like a cheap xxxxx.

[post="263929"][/post]​

I suspect that will happen as the unions at UAL don't have the gumption to walk out the door. But if i was a UAL customer i would be thinking of booking another airline soon.

 

[Fly]

When are we employess of the airline industry going to quit financing cheap tickets by allowing banks to dictate our wages and benefits?

[post="264885"][/post]​

When American steps up to the plate and bends over. How ya feeling Princess? Ready? I'm not....so you go first!

 

[767jetz]

When are we employess of the airline industry going to quit financing cheap tickets by allowing banks to dictate our wages and benefits?

[post="264885"][/post]​

When we are out of bankruptcy and the airline is able to sustain itself. It is simply a matter of leverage. When times are good, employees can demand more for their services. In times like these, when your employer is in BK and your neighbors are undercutting you from every direction, employees have nothing to bargain with.

Clearer heads will prevail. The smart unions will get the best (least worst) deal they can, and live for another day when the leverage pendulum swings our way again. Anyone who got into this industry not knowing that it was cyclical was setting themselves up for disappointment.

PK, since AA is in such good shape, why don't you stand up for all that is good and righteous and take one for the team?? :down:

 

[mrfish3726]

767 things aren't as bad at AA as they are at UniTED. Heck every employee just got a raise, even if it was just 1.5% it is still a raise! And AA hasn't hacked up there in house maintenance the way UAL, DAL, NWA, or USAIR has. So yes things aren't that bad at AA.

And you talk about having leverage in the good times HAAAA! What about the ESOP good times when they broke their promise of seamless contracts only to let them go on for years. Yeah we got the raises, but had to give it all back before it was over. Your still supporting a loosing management team 767!!!