How Much Is Your Health Care Costing You?

[TWU informer]

Wow!!!! Those amfa guys are brilliant!!! I wonder if they have a "snapback" provision on their concessionary 38% outsourcing limit?

Only someone that is braindead, or refuses to hear the truth would continue to call the 38% outsource limit at NWA a concession.

100% outsource capable restricted to 38% = 62% Improvement

You must balance Kirk Wells' check book also?

That is another nice attempt though, at deflecting away from the TWU "improved Flex Benefits" medical plan we now suffer from.

Do you know what the topic is? Or are you just brainwashed to repeat that same lie over, and over again?

 

[mojo13]

Gerard Aprey on Dec 25, 2003 at the DFW hangar states that the comapny was at no time in danger of going Chapter 11, liquidation.

What???

Amfaman, do you have documentation of this?

Chapter 11 Reorganization

Chapter 7 Liquidation

This statement does not make sense.

 

[scorpian]

AAmech says
Wow!!!! Those amfa guys are brilliant!!! I wonder if they have a "snapback" provision on their concessionary 38% outsourcing limit?

AAmech
whats our outsourcing limit?

 

[Bob Owens]

Jim, I am what is known at MCIE as a "Platte Co. Pig Farmer. Don't really approve of the name but it fits I guess. I tried to do a search for ECLAT on the internet but cannot find a link, can someone assist me there. Thank you.

I can see the blackmailing issue having some meat to it. I think AA has some lawyers doing overtime in the creativity department. Do you know if the snapback issue could have been? Meaning, was the time limit on negotiations figured in on the cost savings (concessions)?

Here is the link;
http://www.eclatconsulting.com/Presentations.htm

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr. Owens, I voted for the concessions that you blame on the TWU that I am part of, along with a majority I believe. I realize it is to no avail to assume AMFA would have played a different scenerio when AA requested concessions to stay in business. From what I have read, which is very limited, I ascertain that AMFA would have said no to any concessions and received a massive furlough and more than likely a total base closure of either MCIE or AFWE or both. I also realize that this business between company and union at times is a big poker hand so to speak, but I for one am not a gambler. I still, even with higher medical, less vacation, and the other losses, make a good income and my children are fed and in school. To this I thank the TWU. Thank you.

Cal;

Why do you assume that without the concessions that AA would have closed the bases? Because they threatened to? BS, they were just putting the squeeze on everybody and it worked.

Even with the concessions that UAL and USAIR got, even with outsourcing, they both still were paying more for maint than AA was before we gave the concessions. You have to remember that there is more involved here than just wages, and with all the OSMs our average wage is brought down considerably. In house gives the company complete control resulting in higher quality and better utilization of equipement. The maint is done around AAs schedule, not the third party providers.

Another thing is with all the outsoucing that is already being done is there enough capacity to absorb AA's 800 airplanes, if there was wouldnt the sudden increase in demand cause an increase in price, thereby negating the savings, if they existed in the first place?

I see where UAL lost their court case, so they may be stuck with INDY. So that means that UAL may be recalling more workers. If AA had closed these bases not only would they have lost the benifits of in house but they would be getting sued by three states. Remember, unlike UAL AA never even went C-11, so it could not just walk away from its contracts, unless of course it was a TWU contract.

 

[Bob Owens]

Mr. Informer. I am not a Mr. Drippy Quill. I have read mention of a "Red Quill" that was with the TWU though. Is this the part where name calling begins, if so, I'll back out of your world here and leave you to your bidding. I am here to further educate myself, if possible, on our workplace, nothing more.

Thank you for the information on ECLAT. I did a search on the company and found that Mr. Randy Babbitt is CEO, that he served as VP of the AFL-CIO, served as past Pres. of Airline Pilots Assoc., and has a presidential appointment to boot. It appears he has a strong union background, not a bad thing. I do not believe he would be a negative to our industry, just my opinion.

If ECLAT is indeed fighting AMFA, which it appears they are, I would say that would be due to the TWU's association with the AFL-CIO and AMFA being a stand alone union. Remember Randy's involvement with the AFL-CIO, sure there is still a bond there. I believe this is the root for your anti-ECLAT stance and I do not blame you if they are against what you desire.

Randy's Resume in pdf file.

Raptor. I am not Steve Connell, I do know him. He was in management for about a year in the early 90's. He was my union steward years ago also, and I might say a very good steward. After he went to management he lost a lot of floor support, my support also. I see a line that should not be crossed. That was his move, not mine, and I really shouldn't judge him. He is now very active with the TWU locally. Our views are the same as quite a few members that do not post here, or much less, are aware of this board. I am really not here to debate but to read, I guess I should not have registered, was a lot less hassle.

Do you find it odd that after only a couple of days I am thought to be two different people. My kids are laughing now.Thank you.

A union pedigree does not mean that they will still be pro union. You should remember that Ronald Reagan was President of the SAG years before he fired PATCO and did his best to bust every union in the country.

Eclat was hired by the company to scare the crap out of the unions so they would give concessions. That was their job. Forget where Randy came from. The union then hired them, what were they going to do, contradict everything they just said? No, they simply presented pretty much the same program to the members but this time THE UNION WAS PAYING THEM!!!!!

They must have really gotten a kick out of that!

Jim Little is either a moron or a crook for hiring ECLAT.

 

[Superside]

Check e-pays fellas. Look at your medical costs for the 1st pay check in Jan.
My medical cost went from $550 a year to $901. Of course we all knew this was coming, Didn't we?
Meical now costs more than Dues!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Gerard Aprey on Dec 25, 2003 at the DFW hangar states that the comapny was at no time in danger of going Chapter 11, liquidation.

What???

Amfaman, do you have documentation of this?

Chapter 11 Reorganization

Chapter 7 Liquidation

This statement does not make sense.

Was in a hurry when I posted it, but yes Chapter 7 was Jim Little's words. Arprey stated in front of many on his Christmas visit, that AA was never in danger of going liquidation.

 

[1AA]

Gerard Aprey on Dec 25, 2003 at the DFW hangar states that the comapny was at no time in danger of going Chapter 11, liquidation.

What???

Amfaman, do you have documentation of this?

Chapter 11 Reorganization

Chapter 7 Liquidation

This statement does not make sense.

Was in a hurry when I posted it, but yes Chapter 7 was Jim Little's words. Arprey stated in front of many on his Christmas visit, that AA was never in danger of going liquidation.

Don Carty publicly stated in November of 2002 that AA was not even thinking about filing for chapter 11. He stated that AA was in better financial shape than our competitors. Five months later we all know the story. AA must have went on a spending spree or looked at the wrong set of books. :unsure: :unsure:

 

[TWU informer]

A TEAM TWU Trip to the Past.

Here is a scan from the 1989 TWU Solicitation to accept concessions from that era. It speaks for itself, I will let you guys decide and comment:

 

[TWU informer]

ANOTHER TEAM TWU Trip Back in Time

Also, in the 1995 TWU Solicitation for Concessions notice the same excuses we hear today. "Survival of the Company" "Outsource Threats".

And the purpose of these concessions? "LONG TERM SURVIVAL OF THE COMPANY" -- Did long term mean to April of 2004?

I wonder why we didn't and still don't have scope language to prevent outsourcing. Why do always need concessions to stop this threat? And I wonder why the "competetive rates" were squandered by Greedy Corporate Execs. and we still have to give more and more?

 

[TWU informer]

"WITHOUT FURTHER RATIFICATION"

The broken Jim Little Promise in documented format. What is it that Little Jim says he will not do without a direct vote of the membership?

 

[TWU informer]

Let's not stop at those lies!

Let's keep going.

Have you ever notice that if you collect TWU mis-information and then study your collections, you can find many lies and twisted facts?

Well check this one out. In the TWU "Insolidarity" News letter mailed to my house, the TWU claims GOP President George W. Bush was to blame for UAL going into Bankruptcy because "the employees" owned the Airline.

But recently, the Tulsa based TEAM TWU Flyers are now claiming it is all AMFA's fault that UAL went Bankrupt.

The FACT is, all of this occured with the IAM at the helm of Mechanic work force at UAL.

There is more two faced, outright dumbass documentation on these fools, but I will save the best for a rainy day. Surely it will rain sometime soon?

TEAM TWU INSOLIDARITY GEORGE BUSH CLAIM ABOUT UAL

TEAM TWU AMFA CLAIM ABOUT UAL

 

[TWU informer]

NOTICE:

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE PAY OF THE MECHANICS AT THE ARILINES

THE PROBLEM WILL NOT BE SOLVED BY INDUSTRIAL UNION CONCESSIONS

WE HAVE GIVEN CONCESSION, AFTER CONCESSION, AFTER CONCESSIONS.

WHEN IS TEAM TWU GOING TO FIGURE OUT AND ADDRESS THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF BED-WETTING WITH MANAGEMENT?

 

[TWU informer]

More TEAM TWU blast from the past.

This is how the peddlers sold us on the concessions of 1995:

TEAM TWU - "URGES YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF INDUSTRY LEADING CONCESSIONS"