How Low Does Employee Pay Have To Go?

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

700UW said: "AA, DL, NW and UAL's Ramp, Mechanics, Utility, Customer Service Agents, Cleaners and Res agents make more then US Airways Employees."

Chip answers: 700UW, would you do an analysis and provide links to this information. I would like to see a detailed study to back up your statement. In regard to W-2, it's my understanding the Tranformation Plan will not adjust US Airways employee pay at this time.

Regards,

Chip

 

[700UW]

You can go to the TWU's web page and view their pay rates, as the same with UAL and the IAM, NWA and the IAM and DL pays more then US.

Pay rates:
Mechanics Base Pay Rates:
AA: $25.25
US: $24.26
UA: $25.00

Cleaners:
AA: $17.27 (AA has vendored out most of their cleaning functions)
US: $17.13 (US only has utility at eight stations- three shift, 10 stations one shift)
UA: $16.85 (UA has vendored out most of their cleaner functions)

Ramp:
AA: $19.94
US: $19.49
UA: $20.35

Stores:
AA: $19.65
US: $19.16
UA: $20.35

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

I believe you missed the Customer Service and Res agents to back up your claim. In addition, how about the NW rates, since you missed them as well. Could you also do an analysis of all the work groups you mentioned for the LCC's, since they are becoming a huge industry force?

By the way, I believe I said W-2 is reportedly not going to change and it is not the issue. The issue is headcount and productivity, which the company appears to want to address in the Transformation Plan.

Separately, what's the employee to aircraft ratio at the airlines you listed and their labor expense as a percentage of revenue, the industry benchmark to measure total labor expense?

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[fatburger]

Chip,

Then why didn't management address these issues in bankruptcy. You would think they could of attained this using the bankruptcy tool. Please don't tell me that the environment changed.

If this management had a clue they would of prepared for the worse case scenario. Dave and Niel didn't cover all of their bases.

One question for you, do you think Dave Siegel exhibits good leadership skills?

-fatburger-

 

[BoeingBoy]

Chip says headcount is the issue...

Approximate headcounts and CASM

US Airways 101 11.98 cents
JetBlue 97 5.92 cents
Southwest 91 7.51 cents

Now let's see, U has the highest cost and highest headcount. JetBlue has the lowest cost but nearly the same headcount. Southwest has the lowest headcount but not the lowest (or highest) cost.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Headcount is not the be all and end all. A hub/spoke system will not allow as efficient use of the employees as a point to point system. A shrinking airline will not have as efficient use of employees as a growing airline.

It's the system, it's not the employee contracts.

Jim

 

[colorado_cowboy]

Chip,
How many times are you going to allow the company to take from you? When are you going to say ENOUGH? We as employees cant afford to keep paying for managements bad decisions.

What happens if U gets their contract modifications and the airline is still losing money? What then? Are you going to want to give more?

You said that W-2's arent going to change but do you think with the productivity changes U has in mind your not going to be affected? Its over dude, management doesnt want to change and were not going to pay for their mistakes any longer.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Chip says
"The Mainline and MDA trip cost goal 8 and 6 cents, respectively."

Chip, if you can fly a EMB-170 for 6cents a trip, I'll personally eat the airplane. If you can fly an EMB-170 for 6cents a mile, I'll also eat the airplane. If you can fly the EMB-170 for 6cents per seat mile, I'll be extremely surprised. No one flying the CRJ-700 (the only equivalent service) is coming anywhere close to that.

As you said to someone else, would you provide a detailed analysis of EMB-170 costs to back up your statement.

Jim

 

[MarkMyWords]

Everyone is so quick to say no concessions and yet no one is waiting to hear what it is that they want. I have heard it over and over that the "concessions" are not going to be in the form of W-2 wage reductions so why not wait and see.

If the growth plan is for adding flights, revamping the hubs, adding point to point flying, adding aircraft, securing jobs, increasing productivity, increasing facitilty efficiencies, cutting expenses, capitalizing on synergies with our STAR partners, etc.....What is the problem? We aren't talking paycuts. We aren't talking furloughs. We aren't talking about everything going express. We ARE talking about adding airplanes. Growing the airline. Making the most out of our resources.

Let's wait to see what is expected of each of us and our respective departments before we slam the window shut. If it is going to take money out of my pocket or cost additional jobs, then I agree - Banks closed.

 

[cavalier]

Everyone is so quick to say no concessions and yet no one is waiting to hear what it is that they want. I have heard it over and over that the "concessions" are not going to be in the form of W-2 wage reductions so why not wait and see.

If the growth plan is for adding flights, revamping the hubs, adding point to point flying, adding aircraft, securing jobs, increasing productivity, increasing facitilty efficiencies, cutting expenses, capitalizing on synergies with our STAR partners, etc..

The 60 additional A/C will come with some very thick strings attached that will reach into our pockets one way or the other, even our very jobs. They could be using the 60 A/C thing to get the unions to the cutting block, AGAIN. RJ RJ RJ is all we heard, then when round three starts peeking around the corner and everyone is saying stick it, then and only then out of the blue we are going to GROW adding 60 AC, sure we are. And sure Dave S. is trustworthy, a shinning pillar of integrity.

 

[700UW]

MWM, work rules means layoff, we have over 20,000 of our former coworkers on the street, we are not giving Dave anything else.

 

[ClueByFour]

The right scenario is to do what MMY is suggesting: streamline the operation and grow it, sans W-2 cuts.

Unfortunately, Little Dave is too much of an egomaniac to do this, and Jerry Glass has too big a stick that he wants to club every union on the property with. So, you will see something like:

"Hey ALPA--here are 60 new Airbus aircraft. We'll use 'em to grow the airline, but only if they are overhauled in Alabama." Or somesuch.

Failing that, they'll reform the work rules to streamline the company, and then back out of the new aircraft acquisition, and lay a few thousand folks off.

Had the current team in CCY had any sort of acumen whatsover, two things would be different:

1. They would have attempted this streamlining while in Chapter 11, when it would have been much easier to do.

2. Had they not attempting things like unilaterally rewriting the IAM contract, implementing a sick policy that is not codified in the AFA contract, etc, they might be in a position to sell a streamlining like MMY suggests and have the employee groups on the property buy-in. Now, even if it makes all the sense in the world to do it, they will never get buy-in from the unions.

Personally, while I think that doing what MMY is suggesting, if it included growth, would be great for the airline, if I were a union leader at US right now I'd tell CCY to pound the proverbial salt.

 

[Smartest Loser]

Okay, don’t hold me to these exact numbers but….

It took a Chapter 11 filing, 1.5 billion in labor concessions, 18,000 less employees and almost half of our fleet size reduced to get our ASM from 12.7 cents a mile down to 10.5 cents a mile.

In Dr. Bonner’s speech he wants to get it down to 9 or even 8 cents a mile....!!! Yikes….!!

This airline can’t stand another massive cut but be prepared; I think its coming…!!! When will it stop…??? :down: :down:

 

[700UW]

It was $1.1 Billion from employees and $1 billion from lessors and vendors.

 

[Mike W]

I gotta ask.Just what are we transforming into? (re: Chip's transformation plan) Are we transforming into an LCC? The world's largest regional airline? OR WHAT? My guess is whatever form it takes, it will include a lot fewer of us than currently work at US Airways.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Cav and 700-

I am not saying that Dave and Dave aren't dangling a 60 airplane carrot in one hand and a baseball bat in the other, but we haven't heard word one about what the company wants yet. Everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that it is a wage concession and will cost jobs because of the environment that we have been working under since Dave got here.

I will say it again, "If the growth plan is for adding flights, revamping the hubs, adding point to point flying, adding aircraft, securing jobs, increasing productivity, increasing facitilty efficiencies, cutting expenses, capitalizing on synergies with our STAR partners, etc" then let's talk. Notice I said adding service and securing jobs. I think those are two very important points.

If the talk of adding 60 airplanes is true, how is it that everyone feels this will cost jobs? It all depends what the company is going to ask for to get the airplanes. Every union has a signed contract until 2009. What is the harm in going to the table and seeing what they want? Doesn't mean you have to accept it. If it will cost anyone W-2 wages or aditional jobs, then walk away.

I know it is tough given the history of this management team, but let's wait and see what the plan is first.