Here We Go Again

[Diesel8]

U will probably lower the fare, how else can they compete. Perhaps that is why people are happy SWA is showing up in Philly, since it forces U to compete with he fares offered, but they can get it on U.

 

[diogenes]

Tad,

First, I am sorry that you and your colleagues have to be in a position to endure these people. I would love to see management come out and work the counters and gates for a day so they could reap what they sewed.

As one who knows you and many of your colleauges, I want to say that you all are the REASON I stay, and about now, you guys are the ONLY reason. You and your colleagues are without a doubt the best the industry has to offer, and for each of the fools you just talked about, I am sure that there are 10 of us loyal customers who truly appreciate all you do. Every time I speak with someone from CCY, by the way, I chastise them for the way they treat the employees--and you know for a fact some of my comments have been quoted.

Had I been standing at the counter next to this person I would have offered to take him or her by the hand and walk them over to the Southwest counter! And it would not have been the first time I have done something like that to help one of your colleauges.

All I can say is keep a stiff upper lip, and keep doing what you do---I sincerely hope we are almost through the worst of it, and I look forward to seeing you again on my next trip through TPA (as soon as I can get this darned cast off my arm).

To you and the rest of the fine people at U, my thanks and best wishes. You have my total support.

Art,

Again, thank you for your support. If you don't mind, I'd like to use your post to explore another thought.

A lot of our customers agree with you - you're here because of the EMPLOYEES.

Not the 'business plan' (HAH!)

Not that dave&jerry are such class acts, or formidable leaders.

Perhaps if such assets were fully and properly utilized, U would enjoy the patronage of more Art's.

Hey Palace. Ever thought it's not all about you?

 

[sfb]

KCFlyer is right here -- the issue isn't the number of $99 seats that WN sells -- the real issue is the number of $500 or $1000 seats US Airways *won't* sell anymore because the customer can walk over to Terminal E and buy a $300 refundable ticket on Southwest -- and get comparable service aside from the open seating. For US employees' sakes, I hope that management's big surprise will be rationalizing the fare structure in PHL, because that's the only way you'll be able to compete long-term.

I think every airline gets its share of difficult passengers -- just like just about any customer service business. Hopefully you can shrug it off and be able to keep on smiling.

 

[javaboy]

watch the a/e series AIRLINE.

expecting to see a 30min ad for WN? not exactly. yes they do sometimes go the extra distance to make it right. but of course so do UAIR employees they just arent highlighted on TV.

Surpisingly i more taken aback at how rude some airline travelers can be. i spent my (insert your ticket price here) no i'm not entitled to a seat, i need to behave like a superbowl half time show? because for my (again insert your fare here) price i OWN this airline now service me dang nabbit (had to check the spelling on that one)

but you know what it wasnt limited to just one airline, having seen this written about in article for different regions (thus different airline carriers) and yes even seen it on AIRLINE. thats not the airline's fault, some people are just rude.

perhaps a list. you make bad you dont go ever again think about it next time your driving 12hrs. and of course most people do behave themselves and are a pleasure to serve by the industry as a whole.

just thought this was kinda the same lines having seen a replay of AIRLINE the other day.

😀

 

[mweiss]

No one's expectations are met all the time. For some a fare will never be low enough, a seat will never be big enough, it's absurd when a flight sells out...For others they should have the option of a preassigned seat, first class should always be part of an aircraft...So tell me where's the happy medium and exactly how do we meet the expectations of every customer?

I think you're missing the point. What I'm trying to say is, you've got two possible approaches to take.

One is WN's approach. Simple, few promises other than low fares, and simple service that gets you from Point A to Point B reliably, much like WalMart. Fewer moving parts (e.g., complex FF rules, elite status, assigned seats, upgrades) means fewer things that can go wrong. Fewer things that can go wrong most likely translates into fewer things that do go wrong. Fewer things that do go wrong means fewer customers that are disappointed.

The other is the Nordstrom approach. You cost more, and everyone knows it. But you provide exemplary service on an equally consistent basis. How can you do that with the added service? Still keep moving parts to a minimum (Nordstrom, for example, takes all returns, period, no questions asked...no complicated rules about "if you bought it on sale, you can't return it unless you bring it back the same day with a receipt and all tags on it"). Nordstrom sets expectations high, meets them, and commands a premium price for it. I don't know if there's a market for Nordstrom service and prices in the airline industry. Midwest Express suggested that there was room for it in the late '90s boom. Legend might have succeeded as well, had AA not gone predatory on them. Maybe there still is a market for this; I don't know.

I am certain, however, that leading customers to believe that they are going to get Nordstrom service and then providing something much closer to WalMart. What's especially awful is that many of your customers are paying the WalMart prices...but this is precisely the biggest problem with having such a huge difference between the highest and lowest coach fares. Everyone feels like they're getting the same product, so the people who paid $149 expect to be treated as if they paid $1149. The small difference between the highest and lowest fare on WN reduces that sense.

Understand that I'm not blaming the front line here. Considering the expectations handed to the customers before they get to you, it's no wonder you find so many of them irate all day long.

 

[youngblood]

MWeiss,

I don't disagree with you about fare structure and creating more competetive fares. I have posted several different times about such things. It's foolhardy to think we can compete with the current fares in some of our markets. My point was that if we rid ourselves of some of our assests - like the FF program - others will have different complaints. I will give you an example of a market where US management may have fimally gotten it right.

A short time ago the PHL to LAS market was advertising inexpensive oneway airfares. Most of the time they amounted to $99 each way. The most expensive ticket was approx. $700 RT. The kicker was the nonrefundable first class fare. $517 after taxes!!! RT to boot!!! Do you know how many seats I had left to sell between Feb and APR - next to nothing. Now this is what I am talking about!!!

As far a other markets are concerned - they need work. I just don't see how we'll be able to do this all the time without alienating our preferred members. We need them just as much as we need leisure travelers purchasing advance nonrefundable tickets. Besides that, I feel a certain loyalty to most preferred members because through all of this they have usually been the ones to say - "I support you."

 

[youngblood]

One my first post I didn't mean to imply that all passengers said some nasty things. Usually, of the number of calls I take a day my percentage of nasties hovers around 2%. Regardless of what business you're in, the customer service portion of it is a hard job to do. Sometimes I get frustrated because I see how the company can be doing things better, but because they don't, we take the brunt of it. And for every nasty customer I have there are at least 10 good ones that follow.

 

[Colby]

All you LUV Lovers can continue to LUV.... Im simply stating A FACT......... I know from experience that certain people don't want to do the CRAP with WN... I am Furloughed right now so whatever happens happens............. IM simply saying it isn't gonna be the __________ end of US AIR because some LCC LC ( LOW CLASS ) carrrier come into PHL......... GET REAL PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[youngblood]

Colby,

I agree, but we still have to adjust. Times - they are a changin.

I really not sweating the WN thing in PHL. I just think it will be intersting to see how it all pans out.

 

[ClueByFour]

Folks, if you think WN is low class, I suggest a trip out to the WN pier at BWI on a weekday morning, and count the imported suits getting on the planes to MDW, PVD, RDU, etc.

Southwest sells a higher percentage of "full" fare than any other airline. The "Original Jams and Birkenstock crowd enroute to see the Mouse" are not the reason Southwest makes the money they do.

 

[youngblood]

Clue,

Again. I agree with changing the fare structure. It only makes sense. But we need to sell our assests, which means changing the fare structure in first class as well.

 

[sfb]

All you LUV Lovers can continue to LUV.... Im simply stating A FACT......... I know from experience that certain people don't want to do the CRAP with WN... I am Furloughed right now so whatever happens happens............. IM simply saying it isn't gonna be the __________ end of US AIR because some LCC LC ( LOW CLASS ) carrrier come into PHL......... GET REAL PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll agree with you that not everyone wants to fly Southwest -- for any number of reasons from lack of assigned seating/first class to perception of clientele to lack of IFE/power ports to whatever. Heck, Art at ISP is the perfect example of this, and he's putting up with props connecting through PHL! This will not save you, though.

What percentage of your customers are unwilling to fly Southwest no matter what? What percentage will fly them if the fare is lower? What percentage will fly Southwest because they actually prefer Southwest (strange as that may seem)?

I honestly think that US will see more traffic as a result of lower fares at PHL -- the big question mark is whether or not the airline can carry that traffic profitably when Southwest is influencing what can be charged.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

I believe it was sfb who wrote in saying, and I quote

:>>"What percentage of your customers are unwilling to fly Southwest no matter what? What percentage will fly them if the fare is lower? What percentage will fly Southwest because they actually prefer Southwest (strange as that may seem)?"<<

Now, I don't live in PHL so I am not going to be one of the folks who defect from US to WN.

But I am one of those persons who will choose WN over other carriers when possible.

If KCFlyer is who I think he is, he is pretty much of the same mind set.

WN offers something that a lot of other airline employees don't seem to understand. The WalMart analogy is not far off the mark.

I might get a cheaper price on a tube of toothpaste at RexAll Drugs rather than WaMart, but I can go to WalMart, buy everything I needed, and walk away with a high degree of certainty that I didn't get screwed on my purchase.

I can buy a ticket from El Paso to almost anyplace from Southwest and know that the price I paid was fair and just. That's true whether it is a walk up last minute full Y or a 21 day cheapie.

If I buy the 21 day cheapie and I change my mind, (or the kids get sick, or my boss becomes a turd and says I have to work on a presentation over the weekend, or somesuch)....I still have the full face value of my ticket for future use. No onerous change fees.

If I buy a cheap ticket to Dallas....say $60 each way....and fly over there.....and decide to drive back with my wife or something......they don't jack my outgoing fare up to full Y....they pretty much accept the fact my plans change and I have $60 credit for future use.

In this industry right now there are few things more valuable to us revenue passengers than the feeling we haven't been screwed. An assigned seat, to me anyway, is of almost no importance compared to the feeling of not being screwed.

I've read Art at ISP's arguments and he is entitled to his opinions, but I do not agree with or share them. Maybe I have lived in TX and ridden WN so much that my sensibilities are different....I'm used to just hopping on the plane and going someplace with little or no fanfare.

Airline employees can continue to harp about WN's clientele being no-class or low-class all they want but it doesn't make it so. Not that it is any great shakes, but I have a Masters degree, own a nice home with a pool in a Doctor-Lawyer neighborhood in west El Paso, and could afford to fly any air carrier I wanted.
The folks I want to fly with have the ugly colored planes and no assigned seats. That's why freedom of choice is such a nice thing.

Bottom line of this sermonette is folks ought not be deceived....there will be some people fly WN when they come in to Philadelphia and decide that simple air travel, at a fair and just price ALL THE TIME, with pleasant and kind albeit not extravagant inflight service.....is what they've wanted all along.

 

[More Facts and Less Emotion]

Not reading too much into PITbull's announcement of today's AFA meeting with management, but it sounds like Southwest could be in for a rude awakening in PHL.

If fares are getting simpler, costs are getting in line - then why would US Airways customers in Philly leave for Southwest? US employees have a lot of fight in them and there are close ties with the customers and employees in Philly. So the answer is the customers won't leave and with competitive costs US will be a successful profitable carrier again.

Let them try Southwest once, they will come back. Because when the fares are the same:

- they don't get advance seat assignments at SWA
- there won't be any first class to upgrade into on SWA
- you can't burn your miles to the Caribbean on SWA
- you can't fly nonstop to as many places from PHL on SWA
- Customers will figure out US employees are just as courteous and friendly

Keep the faith and keep the customers... It's a brave new world!!!

If this were a movie, the soundtrack would have to include the Judas Priest song "You've got another thing coming".

 

[KCFlyer]

Great points
everyone forgets No INTERLINING - No Involuntary re-route to another carrier when your flight is cancelled. I got stuck in MDW overnight on ATA, couldn't get out until ATA decided when THEY would allow me to fly.

If you're in business this is very very uncool. I understand all of the LCC's operate that way so I' told.

Bob.. One of the reasons the LCC's don't interline is because it helps them keep their costs down. Perhaps the other airlines could do this as a cost cutting measure. Then again, an action like that might bring out the "cockroaches".

Also, as I recall, you are adamant that the FF programs not be touched. Did you happen to catch the Wall Street Journal article last week about how FF programs have cost the airlines $25 Billion in lost revenues last year? That's billion with a B. You kind of want it both ways...you want the "elite" perks, you want the FF trips, you want the first class upgrades....and you want it all for a Southwest price. It sounds good on boards that "I'd pay more for the quality service"...but the reality is - you love it when LUV enters a market because now you CAN have it all. I mean, US managment may be dense, but they aren't stupid - they'll match the fares and still offer you elite credits, ff miles, free trips, first class upgrades and interlining (something that is not used 99.999% of the time anyhow).