Health Care Reform

[delldude]

It is yet another one of those stupid government programs that people rail against...

while collecting the check.

Thanks for the UC money.......two years now......

 

[dapoes]

It is yet another one of those stupid government programs that people rail against...

while collecting the check.

The stupidity started when government started to raid SSI funds for whatever they see fit. Turned into a great big ponzi scheme.

 

[Garfield1966]

When outside companies create a model that works efficiently and makes a profit there is absolutely no reason why the government can't do it as good or cheaper or they should go under like anyone else.

Subsidizing losing propositions is what the government does best at its worst.

HooRah for healthcare!

Again, you are missing the point. There is no other company that covers first class mail. There is no one taking a letter, card, bill, or other such document and sending it for $.44 Fed Ex and UPS will do it but it will cost you several dollars. While this may be a loosing venture financially, it is also a needed service.

I think at least for starters medical care will fall into the same category. Private enterprise obviously cannot do it. By that I mean that unless someone is fairly well off, any type of medical problem could bankrupt them and any minor one could cost a small fortune (even with insurance they wanted over $3k for a hernia). IMO, government has to step in to make adjustments. No I do not think what is being done now is the answer but what was being done (nothing) was not the answer either. The system is broken and we have to start somewhere.

 

[delldude]

Again, you are missing the point. There is no other company that covers first class mail. There is no one taking a letter, card, bill, or other such document and sending it for $.44 Fed Ex and UPS will do it but it will cost you several dollars. While this may be a loosing venture financially, it is also a needed service.

Ask yourself why there is no other company that delivers first class mail.......they have an exclusive......

USPS has the luxury of deciding whether or not it will invite competition for first class mail.
They 'allow' competition at the 'urgent' mail service and their competition does quite well.
I see no reason why someone else can't succeed.
You must remember USPS is self funded by law.......if it can operate poorly on its own profits then someone else could too.

 

[Garfield1966]

No, there are no other companies doing it because you can't make money off of it. UPS and Fed Ex can make money off of packages.

 

[delldude]

No, there are no other companies doing it because you can't make money off of it. UPS and Fed Ex can make money off of packages.

Wrong.............USPS has a government assured monopoly by the Constitution.

If, which I seriously doubt....USPS would allow private mail 'competition'.....they would be challenged.

Are you telling me a competitor would be paying the high union dues and cadillac healthcare and unexceptable work rules,absenteeism and job performance USPS does?

 

[KCFlyer]

Are you telling me a competitor would be paying the high union dues and cadillac healthcare and unexceptable work rules,absenteeism and job performance USPS does?

Most likely not...but weren't you in the airline industry? An industry that for a time had high union dues, cadilliac health care, unexceptable work rules, absenteeism, and a lower job performance level? If so, you should have welcomed the "modernization" of the industry.

 

[Garfield1966]

That is not how I read the COTUS clause pertaining to the postal service. There is no mention that I have seen giving the USPS a monopoly on mail delivery. All I see in the clause is the obligation to create a post office. I think that is further supported by the mere existence of companies like Fed Ex and UPS. They came in with more efficient high speed package delivery than that USPS could offer. Had they had a plan to do so with the USPS for first class mail I am sure they would have done so.

I am aware that the USPS has an advantage in that it is government funded and that it has operated at a loss but that was the point I was making earlier. There are some public needs that, for lack of a better term, out weigh their cost. Defense and the postal service are two that I can think of. Neither produce or add anything but both provide a service that is needed. No other company can send a letter from A to B at $.44. It is not economical. Fed Ex and UPS can do it for several dollars or more but that is not what is needed.

I believe health care can be added to this list. It is something we all need and it could be covered expense wise better by the government than by private providers. I do not believe that what is currently being considered is the answer but what we have now sure as hell is not the answer either. As I mentioned earlier, I would like to see the Fed get in on the insurance side of it and the regulation side of it. I think a federal insurance plan where rates are based on salary percentage. No preexisting clauses, and then establish reasonable rates for procedures. Given the amount of profit made by insurance companies now, I think that this plan would cover it's self. The cost would be part of each persons taxes so there would be no way to opt out (just like I cannot opt out of paying for school taxes even though I do not have kids) because at some point and time it is quite likely that you are going to need health care. personally, I do not see any other way to bring the costs of health care under control.

There is already intrastate competition (I use that term loosely) and we see how well that is working. How interstate competition would change that is beyond me. The cost of drugs and other vital treatments can be so prohibitive that people die before they get them if they get them at all. With a job and pretty decent insurance a simple hernia cost me $3,000 out of pocket. Most folks do not have that kind of cash just lying around. What are they supposed to do? What about someone with out insurance? That's a $15k operation. No one should have to go in debt to stay healthy.

 

[dapoes]

I do not believe that what is currently being considered is the answer but what we have now sure as hell is not the answer either.

And yet you default to the cronnies and crooks in washington who have no experience, and will have not be effected by this hijacking of the health industry? Since they have so much experience at it? (not).

Given the amount of profit made by insurance companies now.

More myths and voodoo brought on by the liberal hijackers of healthcare.

I do not see any other way to bring the costs of health care under control.

Nor have you explored anything else then what has been spoon fed by the iberal hijackers of healthcare.

There is already intrastate competition (I use that term loosely) and we see how well that is working. How interstate competition would change that is beyond me.

There is barely anything resembling interstate competition. If you cannot see what the effect would be, then you really have no place in this argument whatsoever.

The cost of drugs and other vital treatments can be so prohibitive that people die before they get them if they get them at all.

You mean like ever so expedient socialized health care systems in Canada and in the UK? Just wait till that happens here under Obamacare.

With a job and pretty decent insurance a simple hernia cost me $3,000 out of pocket. Most folks do not have that kind of cash just lying around.

Ever hear about a savings account? If you cant scrap together 3k then you have much worse things to worry about.

What are they supposed to do? What about someone with out insurance? That's a $15k operation. No one should have to go in debt to stay healthy.

They go into the emergency room and get it done, plain and simple.

 

[KCFlyer]

You mean like ever so expedient socialized health care systems in Canada and in the UK? Just wait till that happens here under Obamacare.

Odd...you put this in here, but a couple of lines before that, you posted this

More myths and voodoo brought on by the liberal hijackers of healthcare.

And what you posted is a bunch of "myths and voodoo" brought on by the opponents of "socialized medicine". If you have a torn rotator cuff in Canada, or need a hip replacement, then sure...you might wait. If you have cancer or are in need of life saving treatment - YOU DON'T WAIT...although this little fact is not brought up by the right. They instead point to someone waiting for rotator cuff surgery and claim that a guy with a ruptured spleen is going to have to wait just as long...and perhaps DIE because of the wait. It's voodoo my friend, pure and simple. Quick question though...if the wait for life saving medications or surgeries are so prevalent in Canada, how come they tend to live longer than Americans?

 

[Garfield1966]

Right now DC is the only game in town. N one else has tried to change the system. Perhaps this will spur some much needed change.

This is some info I found. Being as you always research your info before posting I am sure you have proof that they are living hand to mouth?

Drug company profits

These figures are for 2000 I am looking for more recent info but I have no reason to think they have changed unless you have proof (not your WAG that they have).

Did you not read the idea that I offered? Given that we can either go with what has been offered for the past several decades or try something else, I chose something else.

Is there a law preventing insurance companies from competing intrastate? I know I have shopped insurance for TX and it sucks. The rates are higher than a cats ass and I am not convinced there is not some back door winks and nods going on like there were with air fare 'sales' and increases.

Given that there are not people dropping like flies in CA or UK I fail to see how much worse that could be. My mother experienced 'socialized health care in Germany and it far surpassed anything she would have received here unless she wanted to pay for it her self. The bill from Germany was under $5k.

Ever here of being unemployed or starting over? Yes I did have other things to worry about like mortgage, food, utilities small stuff like that. Let me know when you have been there and done that. I have and I blew through my 6 months of savings. For those who do not have the savings, ER is not the answer. That cost more to the tax payer than having the issue taken care of before it becomes an emergency.

 

[dapoes]

Odd...you put this in here, but a couple of lines before that, you posted this



And what you posted is a bunch of "myths and voodoo" brought on by the opponents of "socialized medicine". If you have a torn rotator cuff in Canada, or need a hip replacement, then sure...you might wait. If you have cancer or are in need of life saving treatment - YOU DON'T WAIT...although this little fact is not brought up by the right. They instead point to someone waiting for rotator cuff surgery and claim that a guy with a ruptured spleen is going to have to wait just as long...and perhaps DIE because of the wait. It's voodoo my friend, pure and simple. Quick question though...if the wait for life saving medications or surgeries are so prevalent in Canada, how come they tend to live longer than Americans?

Learn something....
Canada wait times

Life expectancy has nothing to do with the current medical system (or lack of). It has to do with lifestyle choices. In America we consume tons of processed foods and marketed that we should have it supersized at the same time. We are the most obese, diabetic etc as a result. You visit other countries and you will see portions are smaller and will not find a majority of the processed crap food peddled on the USA.

 

[dapoes]

Right now DC is the only game in town. N one else has tried to change the system. Perhaps this will spur some much needed change.

Change for the worse? Just for the sake of change? No thanks!

Did you not read the idea that I offered? Given that we can either go with what has been offered for the past several decades or try something else, I chose something else.

Of course you would. Because you have an unshakable trust in crooked politicisans to dictate to you what you should or should not do. No thanks!

Is there a law preventing insurance companies from competing intrastate?

Yes there is.

Given that there are not people dropping like flies in CA or UK I fail to see how much worse that could be. My mother experienced 'socialized health care in Germany and it far surpassed anything she would have received here unless she wanted to pay for it her self. The bill from Germany was under $5k.

They aren't dropping like flies here either. But the stats in CA and UK are disturbing to say the least. Also Obamacare is nothing like the system they have in Germany. Germany has the world's oldest universal health care system. At the same time, It took the Germans 125 years to figure out that their health-care system doesn't work.
Chancellor Merkel, something of a political acrobat, was previously allied in coalition with leftist Social Democrats. She's now resisting calls from the Free Democrats to get off the state-pulled health-care train. The FDP's spokesman on health, Daniel Bahr, wants a "shift in direction away from state-run medicine." Why? Because "the current financial figures have showed us that the health-care fund doesn't work."


The current system is bad, but Obamacare is much worse. Like I said before, until health care becomes more consumer-doctor centric rather then third party, the problems and costs aren't going to go away.

Heres a perfect reasoning for that argument:
How to Fix Health Care—Lasik surgery for the medical debate

 

[KCFlyer]

Learn something....
Canada wait times

Life expectancy has nothing to do with the current medical system (or lack of). It has to do with lifestyle choices. In America we consume tons of processed foods and marketed that we should have it supersized at the same time. We are the most obese, diabetic etc as a result. You visit other countries and you will see portions are smaller and will not find a majority of the processed crap food peddled on the USA.

Your article was 3 years old, but that's okay.

 

[dapoes]

Your article was 3 years old, but that's okay.

FYI, it hasn't gotten any better.