Good job Bob Owens

[737823]

Great job questioning Doug Parker about the morale at AA and lack of progress on IAM US negotiations.  For anyone interested the webcast is available online, and transcript will be available shortly.
 
Bob's comments begin at 110 on the webcast.
 
http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/5qanysbb/lan/en
 
Josh

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Great job questioning Doug Parker about the morale at AA and lack of progress on IAM US negotiations.  For anyone interested the webcast is available online, and transcript will be available shortly.
 
Bob's comments begin at 110 on the webcast.
 
Josh

Where online?

 

[737823]

Where online?

 
Oh sorry link is here-you just need to include a name and email address to access the webcast.  The first hour or so is several retirees commenting on the non-rev changes.
 
http://www.media-server.com/m/acs/da49a9d8eeb7674eace1c682d5627350
 
Josh

 

[eolesen]

Oh, the fun of being publicly traded...

There are a couple of statements disguised as question starting at about 5 minutes in, and then they start up again at 0:29:30 minutes.

The woman trying to make the argument that more D3's was a security risk was a fool. They go thru the same screening any other passenger does.

A good explanation given by Parker on the retiree priority change: The US employees gave up their seniority based check-in, so it was not unfair to expect the AA retirees to have to adjust to the US method of retirees going after actives. Parker also brought up what has been said by others: amongst the North American airlines, only AA had retirees ranked in the same classification as actives.

I can't believe he spent almost an hour out of an 80 minute meeting addressing retirees travel priority. It's supposed to be an annual meeting for investors, not an airing of every employee grievance imaginable. It's unfortunate that only two shareholders got to ask questions. They only get one opportunity out of the year to do this, and the retirees saw fit to hijack the meeting for their own purposes. Bob's question was legitimate. The rest should have been tabled for another setting.

 

[MetalMover]

Oh, the fun of being publicly traded...

There are a couple of statements disguised as question starting at about 5 minutes in, and then they start up again at 0:29:30 minutes.

The woman trying to make the argument that more D3's was a security risk was a fool. They go thru the same screening any other passenger does.

A good explanation given by Parker on the retiree priority change: The US employees gave up their seniority based check-in, so it was not unfair to expect the AA retirees to have to adjust to the US method of retirees going after actives. Parker also brought up what has been said by others: amongst the North American airlines, only AA had retirees ranked in the same classification as actives.

I can't believe he spent almost an hour out of an 80 minute meeting addressing retirees travel priority. It's supposed to be an annual meeting for investors, not an airing of every employee grievance imaginable. It's unfortunate that only two shareholders got to ask questions. They only get one opportunity out of the year to do this, and the retirees saw fit to hijack the meeting for their own purposes. Bob's question was legitimate. The rest should have been tabled for another setting.

It is quite clear that they will not be changing the travel policy for active and retirees having already made that decision.  Parker has explained why they made the decision over and over again in his town hall meeting to employees throughout the US and AA systems.
Time to move on.

 

[AirwAr]

OMG..."um, um, a, a, ah, ah, uh, uh"...the whole time he spoke...it's like fingernails on the chalkboard...Speech 101.

 

[AirwAr]

I still blame Horton for unleashing all this BS on AA employees.  He should never have lost control. 

 

[737823]

Not surprisingly Doug didn't substantively answer Bob's and just kept saying the company is negotiating, etc.  From what we read here and in the IAM District 141/142 updates it does not seem the company is moving much.  Not everyone is happy about this stupid merger, I know Bob never supported it and does not believe USAIR is good for AA AMTs. 
 
 

If I had the time I'd like to make a counter-video. To the statement that they allowed other carriers to merge, they already allowed AA and TWA to merge, and at that time it made AA the largest carrier in the world, and what has happened since then? AA reduced it fleet size. essentially removing the entire fleet that was TWA from being available to service the needs of the American public, they introduced fees that greatly increased the cost to travel and drastically reduced the total number of people working and the pay they were getting from working. So what was the advantage to the consumer, the worker or the government by allowing AA to become the biggest carrier in the past? The Consumer lost as the cost of air travel increased and the availability of seats and service decreased, workers lost as thousands of jobs were eliminated and compensation decimated, the government lost because they had to pick up benefits for many who lost their jobs. Some may say that TWA was going to liquidate anyway, but the fact is that the merger propelled AA to the number one spot for the first time and set in motion all the things the DOJ was supposed to stop, sure it took a while but the results are undeniable. The mergers of NWA/DL and UA/CO have continued the trend that the TWA merger initiated, fewer flights, higher prices, more fees and fewer jobs. At what point will it stop? Does anyone really think that this merger wont result in more of the same? As has been pointed out already, if the two carriers merge they will have 10,000 more workers than their nearest competitor, that means more job reductions. If you listen carefully notice how the video is rife with the same ambiguous terms management always uses when they are about to screw us, terms like "Opportunity:, "more competitive", "Make us stronger", "flexibility", "potential for growth", "better for competition", etc etc. We have been through this enough to know what those terms really mean-more profits for us, less money for you". You being the consumers who will have less money in his pocket after flying and us the workers who will get paid less for getting them there. The fact is merger will lead to the things that the DOJ has brought up in their filing, higher costs for the consumer and less choice. AA aren't pushing for this merger so they can offer consumers more opportunity, more choices or a better flying experience, they are doing it so they can raise ticket prices, shed workers and make more money, that is the undeniable truth that stands out beyond all the catchwords they throw out there. This would be yet another deal that brings the industry into the state of being an oligopoly. Great for shareholders, great for the banks, bad for the consumers and its the DOJs job to protect them from that. The question isn't whether they should allow AA to merge again because since AA merged with TWA and became number one that they have allowed other carriers to merge and been displace AA from the number one spot but rather should they force United and Delta to divest and undo those mergers.

 

 

 

Back on Topic.

If the IAM really is upset that US is not negotiating with them how come they have not asked the NMB for a release?

When we met with USAIR management back in July their COO pretty much said that the IAM was OK with just kicking the can down the road. The fact that they have not even asked to be released supports what the COO said.

 

 

We met with your management team on July 31. I was not impressed and let them know it. Told them that if they wouldnt give the workers they already have a decent deal why should we expect anything different? The COO guy went on and on about the synergies and about how the merger with America West had already produced synergies for the company, I asked how much of those synergies went to the employees? $400 million, $200 million $50 Million or ZERO. He started rambling on so I told him not to bother, I had my answer, ZERO, and thats what we could expect as well. I told them I had no interst in buidling a megga carrier built around super low mechanics wages.(Left the hat, but I kept the pens.)

 

 
 

If they start.

In the four years of negotiations they repeatedly announced layoffs in maint that didnt materialize, they added heads.

When I came into this industry I understood that what little security you could expect would be from having a lot of seniority, building up your own savings and choosing to work in a location where the carrier would more than likely maintain operations. That we should always focus on compensation, which is real, and not on promises which dissapear if the company dissapears which has always been a possibility in this industry-even prior to deregulation. The only reason why I'm at AA is because they called first, I stayed because I got hired at a time where the airline had not hired in a long time and I moved up the seniority list quickly. But I always knew there were no guarantees, thats why even when things were better most of us kept something going on the side.

Will there be a reduction in headcount? Most likely, how much of that will be from layoffs remains to be seen. Other than the widebodies is it really cost effective to outsource if those jobs help you put in concessionary deals across an entire contract group?

As I've said before AA has supposedly been telling kids in A&P schools that they would be hiring by the time they graduate. Well if theres a big recall list that isnt likely to happen.The fact remains that the supply of A&Ps is not keeping up with the demand, the shortfall is being covered with overtime, which is why the FAA dropped changing the language on Duty Times. So in order to make up for lost wages we work more hours. The FAA, for their part dumped all the responsibility on the mechanic as far as not working exhausted, but put nothing in place to punish employers who force in short turn times between shifts, low wages and no real program for dealing with problems with working shifts, especially nights. So the FAA will tell mechanics its their responsibility to make sure they are well rested but allow companies to force mechanics to work where they arent likely to get more than 4 hours sleep between shifts.

With this agreement we are responsible for destroying whats left of this profession as a career choice. As an A&P, which I am first and foremost, since I was 18, the best thing that could happen for the profession would be for AA to liquidate before our peers get too deeply into negotiations, of course as an employee that would be disruptive, but perhaps in the long run even AA A&Ps would be better off if AA were to liquidate. EALs liquidation had a positive effect on mechanics wages two decades ago, if AA were to fail with their plan based on super low mechanics wages it would likely have the same effect.

If there is a big layoff, sure in the here and now it will cause hardship, but over the long run it may be a blessing, especially if A&P mechanics across the country are fortunate enough to see AA liquidate before our existance hurts their chances to recover some of what was lost in the post 9-11 recession.

So let the rumors fly, if you are young enough you should prepare to move on whether you get hit by a RIF or not. If you leave the industry then what happens at AA doesn't matter, but if you remain an Airline Mechanic what we have done here will haunt you wherever you go, especially if AA merges with USAIR and creates a mega carrier with super low mechanics wages.

 

 
Josh

 

[700UW]

And Bob isnt negotiating for the IAM and never has, he isnt privy to what is going on.
 
And the NMB must think the parties are moving as they have met twice and are meeting again this month.

 

[737823]

And Bob isnt negotiating for the IAM and never has, he isnt privy to what is going on.
 
And the NMB must think the parties are moving as they have met twice and are meeting again this month.

 
Did you even listen to his question on the webcast?
 
Josh

 

[eolesen]

My money is on the CEO being better informed on the status of negotiations than what's filtering out to the rank and file...

 

[Bob Owens]

And Bob isnt negotiating for the IAM and never has, he isnt privy to what is going on.
 
And the NMB must think the parties are moving as they have met twice and are meeting again this month.

Siding with management? I never said I spoke for the IAM, I said they asked to be released, so did they or did they not ask to be released? When you ask to be released you're not saying, "talks are going fine but we want to be released" , by filing you are saying that talks are not going fine and you need to move to the next step. Even during a cooling off period the parties are expected to meet, daily if possible, not maybe once a month, besides "meeting" does not mean they are getting any closer to an agreement.

So now you are saying the IAM is OK with the pace of negotiations? So I guess they only asked for a release to appease their members who after 12 years are still at the bottom of the industry ? The slow pace has already extended that dubious position for two more years.

 

[700UW]

Dont put words into my post.
 
My reply was to Josh, who quotes you from a year ago, like you are the know it all for what is going on with the IAM and Section 6 negotiations.
 
When the IAM asked for a release several times, the board would not grant it.
 
When Chairwomen Linda P took over all the IAM mediated talks, and since the addition of Gerry Glass, both Fleet and M&R Negotiations have moved forward.
 
So there has been progress and are hoping at the end of the next session to have a TA.
 
No one is happy with the pace of negotiations, as you know neither the union nor US control the talks, how many years did you go at AA in Section 6 and got no where before they filed Chapter 11?
 
But no union can force the company to come to an agreement nor force the board to grant a release.
 
The IAM has taken steps to put pressure on the company, working to rule and public picketing.
 
And as you know the raid stopped all negotiations.

 

[737823]

I was referring to Bob's remarks yesterday morning at the shareholders meeting.  Bob asked a reasonable question about the merger and employee morale especially when they are not negotiating in good faith for IAM USAIR.  Did you even bother listening to what Bob said?
 
Yep blame the company, blame the NMB, blame the IBT, never anything within in the IAM.
 
Josh

 

[700UW]

I was referring to Bob's remarks yesterday morning at the shareholders meeting.  Bob asked a reasonable question about the merger and employee morale especially when they are not negotiating in good faith for IAM USAIR.  Did you even bother listening to what Bob said?
 
Yep blame the company, blame the NMB, blame the IBT, never anything within in the IAM.
 
Josh

You are lying again.
 
Your own post, quotes bob from 2012 and 2013.
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57222-good-job-bob-owens/#entry1091914
 
 

Not surprisingly Doug didn't substantively answer Bob's and just kept saying the company is negotiating, etc.  From what we read here and in the IAM District 141/142 updates it does not seem the company is moving much.  Not everyone is happy about this stupid merger, I know Bob never supported it and does not believe USAIR is good for AA AMTs. 
 
Josh

 
 

If I had the time I'd like to make a counter-video. To the statement that they allowed other carriers to merge, they already allowed AA and TWA to merge, and at that time it made AA the largest carrier in the world, and what has happened since then? AA reduced it fleet size. essentially removing the entire fleet that was TWA from being available to service the needs of the American public, they introduced fees that greatly increased the cost to travel and drastically reduced the total number of people working and the pay they were getting from working. So what was the advantage to the consumer, the worker or the government by allowing AA to become the biggest carrier in the past? The Consumer lost as the cost of air travel increased and the availability of seats and service decreased, workers lost as thousands of jobs were eliminated and compensation decimated, the government lost because they had to pick up benefits for many who lost their jobs. Some may say that TWA was going to liquidate anyway, but the fact is that the merger propelled AA to the number one spot for the first time and set in motion all the things the DOJ was supposed to stop, sure it took a while but the results are undeniable. The mergers of NWA/DL and UA/CO have continued the trend that the TWA merger initiated, fewer flights, higher prices, more fees and fewer jobs. At what point will it stop? Does anyone really think that this merger wont result in more of the same? As has been pointed out already, if the two carriers merge they will have 10,000 more workers than their nearest competitor, that means more job reductions. If you listen carefully notice how the video is rife with the same ambiguous terms management always uses when they are about to screw us, terms like "Opportunity:, "more competitive", "Make us stronger", "flexibility", "potential for growth", "better for competition", etc etc. We have been through this enough to know what those terms really mean-more profits for us, less money for you". You being the consumers who will have less money in his pocket after flying and us the workers who will get paid less for getting them there. The fact is merger will lead to the things that the DOJ has brought up in their filing, higher costs for the consumer and less choice. AA aren't pushing for this merger so they can offer consumers more opportunity, more choices or a better flying experience, they are doing it so they can raise ticket prices, shed workers and make more money, that is the undeniable truth that stands out beyond all the catchwords they throw out there. This would be yet another deal that brings the industry into the state of being an oligopoly. Great for shareholders, great for the banks, bad for the consumers and its the DOJs job to protect them from that. The question isn't whether they should allow AA to merge again because since AA merged with TWA and became number one that they have allowed other carriers to merge and been displace AA from the number one spot but rather should they force United and Delta to divest and undo those mergers.

 

Back on Topic.

If the IAM really is upset that US is not negotiating with them how come they have not asked the NMB for a release?

When we met with USAIR management back in July their COO pretty much said that the IAM was OK with just kicking the can down the road. The fact that they have not even asked to be released supports what the COO said.

 

We met with your management team on July 31. I was not impressed and let them know it. Told them that if they wouldnt give the workers they already have a decent deal why should we expect anything different? The COO guy went on and on about the synergies and about how the merger with America West had already produced synergies for the company, I asked how much of those synergies went to the employees? $400 million, $200 million $50 Million or ZERO. He started rambling on so I told him not to bother, I had my answer, ZERO, and thats what we could expect as well. I told them I had no interst in buidling a megga carrier built around super low mechanics wages.(Left the hat, but I kept the pens.)

 

If they start.

In the four years of negotiations they repeatedly announced layoffs in maint that didnt materialize, they added heads.

When I came into this industry I understood that what little security you could expect would be from having a lot of seniority, building up your own savings and choosing to work in a location where the carrier would more than likely maintain operations. That we should always focus on compensation, which is real, and not on promises which dissapear if the company dissapears which has always been a possibility in this industry-even prior to deregulation. The only reason why I'm at AA is because they called first, I stayed because I got hired at a time where the airline had not hired in a long time and I moved up the seniority list quickly. But I always knew there were no guarantees, thats why even when things were better most of us kept something going on the side.

Will there be a reduction in headcount? Most likely, how much of that will be from layoffs remains to be seen. Other than the widebodies is it really cost effective to outsource if those jobs help you put in concessionary deals across an entire contract group?

As I've said before AA has supposedly been telling kids in A&P schools that they would be hiring by the time they graduate. Well if theres a big recall list that isnt likely to happen.The fact remains that the supply of A&Ps is not keeping up with the demand, the shortfall is being covered with overtime, which is why the FAA dropped changing the language on Duty Times. So in order to make up for lost wages we work more hours. The FAA, for their part dumped all the responsibility on the mechanic as far as not working exhausted, but put nothing in place to punish employers who force in short turn times between shifts, low wages and no real program for dealing with problems with working shifts, especially nights. So the FAA will tell mechanics its their responsibility to make sure they are well rested but allow companies to force mechanics to work where they arent likely to get more than 4 hours sleep between shifts.

With this agreement we are responsible for destroying whats left of this profession as a career choice. As an A&P, which I am first and foremost, since I was 18, the best thing that could happen for the profession would be for AA to liquidate before our peers get too deeply into negotiations, of course as an employee that would be disruptive, but perhaps in the long run even AA A&Ps would be better off if AA were to liquidate. EALs liquidation had a positive effect on mechanics wages two decades ago, if AA were to fail with their plan based on super low mechanics wages it would likely have the same effect.

If there is a big layoff, sure in the here and now it will cause hardship, but over the long run it may be a blessing, especially if A&P mechanics across the country are fortunate enough to see AA liquidate before our existance hurts their chances to recover some of what was lost in the post 9-11 recession.

So let the rumors fly, if you are young enough you should prepare to move on whether you get hit by a RIF or not. If you leave the industry then what happens at AA doesn't matter, but if you remain an Airline Mechanic what we have done here will haunt you wherever you go, especially if AA merges with USAIR and creates a mega carrier with super low mechanics wages.

Its quite clear you lie all the time Josh, and you hate the IAM.
 
Its quite clear you dont understand the RLA and Section 6 negotiations.
 
The Company refused to meet while the raid was going on, AL H sent a letter to the board.
 
The board controls the talks, not the IAM nor the company.
 
Keep up the lies and misinformation, you are a troll.