Globalized Union

[jimntx]

I would hate to think that the only politics I could espouse was warmed over 1960s power to the people claptrap. Even in the countries that actually converted to a Communist system, their people are either leaving at the first opportunity or the leaders have given up on an unworkable system. Even China, though nominally Communist, could not pass the smell test with their galloping capitalist economy. The people of China seem a lot more interested in earning enough to get an automobile and a better place to live than spouting the sayings of Chairman Mao.

 

[cooper43]

You are stretching big time. A free market uses those that are either unemployed/or paid less than others. It is the stick in the carrot/stick scenario. Unemployment and low pay (stick) gives workers an incentive to not suck; whereas higher pay and promotions (carrot) serve as an incentive for workers to work better.

Where in the world did you get eugenics from my posts? Do away with people? What are you talking about? There are jobs for most lazy and unmotivated people... if they don't care to better their work ethic, then they shouldn't receive the same pay that the motivated, hard working employees receive. My hope --and the goal -- is that the lazy workers will see the carrots being obtained by the hard workers, and start working harder themselves.

Having bad workers in the market is good for the ordinary worker: it makes the ordinary worker look better. Cheers!



Why is it a critical issue? Because the union says so? Because the senior employees say so? In many sectors, seniority is desired because it brings additional wisdom, foresight, and knowledge that makes them better workers than less senior employees... in most cases, the pay scale will reflect such additional benefits brought to the table by the senior employee. In other sectors, some senior employees become complacent, lazy, and fail to bring fresh ideas. In some sectors, seniority is less relevant because a less-senior employee is just as capable at doing the same level of work. Should the company be forced to pay this worker much more because they are simply senior? Some say yes; some say no.

The company, in most instances, should be able to decide whether seniority brings additional benefits to the company that should be reflected in the employees pay scale (absent any ADA violations). If the employee feels like he/she is not being paid enough, said employee is free to test his/her theory by looking for other jobs. If the employee is valued more somewhere else, then said employee may take that job where the seniority is more valued.

Do you mind if I ask what kind of work you do?

 

[cooper43]

Wow, I don't believe you trully understand the nature of what you support. Carrots? Sticks? Now we are asses to be led around? Again, that is the the view of the elite. Your examples reek with condesention and a sense of superiority. Yet since your name is not Rockefeller, Soros or Rothschild, you are one of us. Like it or not.
The free market fairy tale goes like this: Everyone needs to drop their trade barriers, gets rid of their social safety nets (medicine, pensions, etc) and unions, privatize everything ,then all will be wonderful. Manna will fall fron heaven! The reality is that only an elite few get richer and the people get poorer. This is economic Darwinism. These so called "free market" policies have only succeeded when they were enforced by military force. Chile is the prime example. In order to implement Milton Friedman's policies, Pinochet had stage a coup (with the help of the CIA) to remove the elected president, Salvador Allende; then murder/disappear thousands of union leaders, intellectuals, opposition leaders and leftist disidents who opposed the unemployment, high food and utilities cost which the wonderful "free market" brought. Of course the rich got richer. The same occured in Argentina, Brasil, the so called Asian Tigers and Russia.
Again. The so called "free market" is economic Darwinism, and just like social Darwinism it is eugenic in its origin.

I share many of your views, however I am not as articulate in espousing those views. Keep up the good work. Those who feel that the playing field is even for everyone and that everyone has the same chance at making it to the top are being fooled by those who hold all the capital. One day they may come to realize that even though they are working harder and doing a better and better job everyday that they are losing ground and going backwards. I consider myself a very hard worker and always go the extra mile but I still recieved pay and benefit cuts. It is true that American workers (labor, not white colar jobs)
incomes have not been keeping up with inflation. However American productivity has been rising.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Do you mind if I ask what kind of work you do?

Cooper,

I do not mind. I am asked this question, or a variation thereof, quite frequently on these boards. While I am reluctant to give specifics, I will tell you that I work indirectly with airlines (not employed by an airline). I have an interest (both monetary and personal) in cosolidation and industry distress in the airline realm. I do not have a particular airline in my corner.

 

[El Che]

This is complete flame at this point, bud.

I fully grasp what I support. I support workers being paid for their hard work!! I support lazy, unmotivated workers being paid less. (you are the one who appears to not truly understanding). It has nothing to do with eugenics.

Lastly, you have mentioned the military force thing at least in 2 separate threads now. You say it as if the capitalist/free trade folks have a monopoly on using military force to induce change. Again, how else are governments or market system (or non-market systems) typically changed? Humans are adverse to change, or more precisely, adverse to the unknown. A quick look into history would demonstrate that such changes are almost always through war, military power, natural disaster, etc. The free-market advocates do not have a monopoly on that.

P.S. It is difficult to have a discussion with you because you only argue against a position that I have never taken. It is akin to me arguing against your position of never trusting anyone over the age of 24. I think your position is bunk. Poppycock right???

Desireables, undesireables, super employees, carrots, sticks...these are your own words used to describe the working class, and ways to motivate it, not mine.
I thought your beloved "free market" was so great that everyone would love it...you know, "a rising tide raises all boats." It is good that you admit the truth; which is that the so called free market must be implemented by force, and by hook or by crook. That only applies to where you have an informed population. In this country, our industrial might has been destroyed by free market globalism and the dumbed down population does nothing. There is some hope, though. I believe the people are slowly comming out of their media induced stupor and are beggining to see that something is not right in free market Valhalla. They are awakeing to a shrinking pay check, gas pushing $5.00/gallon, the mortgage crisis, food scarcity, rising food costs and dollar devaluation, with the possibility of a global economic depression looming.
Qui bono?

 

[El Che]

And that, sir, is why unions came into being to begin with. It's rather evident those in the corner offices haven't read all the stories available in history classes re: unions, or if they are reading, calculating a way to use them to their advantage against their workers.

It's also evident unions have degenerated into corporate clones and exist only to serve themselves with the occasional grievance being filed over pay or hours to seem as though the membership is receiving something for their dues payments while actually contributing to the union's function as a Judas Goat.

For those unfamiliar with that term:

A Judas goat is a trained goat used at a slaughterhouse and in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot. from Wikipedia

For another thing we have to contend with, Google the "Delphi Technique". Read and understand the tactics used by the newest 'management' group on the property at TULE, RLG. For a description of the tactics, go to this url:

http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm

We can beat these devils at their own game, but only if all understand the tricks.

BINGO!

 

[El Che]

I would hate to think that the only politics I could espouse was warmed over 1960s power to the people claptrap. Even in the countries that actually converted to a Communist system, their people are either leaving at the first opportunity or the leaders have given up on an unworkable system. Even China, though nominally Communist, could not pass the smell test with their galloping capitalist economy. The people of China seem a lot more interested in earning enough to get an automobile and a better place to live than spouting the sayings of Chairman Mao.

China, the darling of the globalists! China, the sweat shop to the world.
The Communists are alive and well in China. The new millionaires are the party members, they are the grandchildren of Mao's generation. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!
Of course these are "good" commies who allow multi national corporations to exploit their own people; as opposed to those "bad" commies in Cuba, who with all its faults has a highly educated population, the highest rate of black doctors in the hemisphere, and decent medical care for its people.