Get your walking papers

[Dignity]

The Inflight Service Pacific Division, the NRT hub and 5th freedom rights are not going away with this merger(no matter how much misinformation I have been told by some in your group)...the South Flight Attendants are not outsourced and utilized to replace US jobs, they serve a purpose on intra-Asia flights and are excellent Flight Attendants(they can run circles around all of us).They also were the first to be fitted for the uniform and are equally excited about the merger.. Our contract limits their ability to fly only intra-Asia and not into the US.

Furthermore, all employees worldwide have worked together professionally to enable the airline to become a viable and attractive merger candidate. While I firmly believe priority should always be for an American first based on the fact it is a US flag carrier, does not diminish the contribution of all(including International employees). *all* current employees deserve respect and that includes those in Asia who have worked just as many years as most of us here in the United States as a team. labels should never be tolerated(they were/are not outsourced employees replacing US jobs into our country) how they will be utilized going forward is yet to be determined.

The idea that some people believe we can go into another country set up a hub(at a slot restricted airport) and then do as we please is absolutely incredible to me. It is a privilege to have that hub that is now a part of your/our company. There will always be a certain number of South Flight Attendants because of the hub at NRT. You need to do a little bit more research....

Also, it does not matter if someone flew DTW-GRR for 30 years or someone else flew JFK-CDG for 10, its still should be..D.O.H(first day of training in a job classification)

 

[BABABOOY]

Also, it does not matter if someone flew DTW-GRR for 30 years or someone else flew JFK-CDG for 10, its still should be..D.O.H(first day of training in a job classification)

I understand, but some feel its more complicated than that. Where do the
former PanAm F/A's fit in? Their adjusted date for bidding? or First day of training with Delta? or
Pan Am ? What about company transfers? What about former Western?
What about bidding for Vacation? With Delta, its based on DOH, not "first day of training in Job classification". A large can of worms...

 

[North by Northwest]

Where do you get your facts that you guys have more long haul flying than DAL? And you can not count the positions out of your tokyo base that are flown with foriegn nationals. DAL flys as many of not a more long hauls as NWA. Also DAL doesnt have any outsourced flying as NWA does. So it is ok to make comparissons but do not try to distort the numbers.

Cooper-

One has to only look at the amount of really longhaul flying numbers. Not just a few dailies to a few places like Mumbai.

Transpacific from North America are some of the longest flights in the world...you can verify the weeklies and the freq. via NWA.com or OAG. Northwest maintians almost 300 weekly slots to Tokyo Narita alone. Much farther than US to Europe where Delta is strong. NW Asian flights average 10 hours or more from points in the US.

Off the top of my head I believe you have Joburg, Mumbai, BA, NRT...no where near the level of freq. that NW maintains to Asia. FYI, the NW Pacific crews fly limited destinations on limited flights out of Tokyo, covered by our Union Scope language. And as Dignity stated, they are indeed fantastic and highly competent professional whom we appreciate having on our team.

So, as you can see...the numbers are VERY real.

 

[North by Northwest]

I see you have some pretty firm predisposed views of the DAL and the south in general. Slave mentality? That has to be the most ignorant (borderline racist) statement you have said so far (and there have been plenty). Considering that most of ATL is composed of people that were never born in the south and moved in from other areas.

Does it also mean that the rest of the country has this affliction since union membership is at an all time low?

Do you have any facts to support this "cultural fact"? No of course not. But its nice to see your true colors coming thru. I can see your going to blend in well.

Well.. Missy,

How nice of you to take offense to history. If the term SLAVERY offends you that is a personal issue that you need to own. The scourge of SLAVERY belongs to ALL Americans not just those with a certain skin color.

Now if you would like for me to share a perspective of my view point on Slavery, anti unionism and the South, I will be more than happy to.

Here's some for starters. :

http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/curricul.htm

http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0969

I would also suggest you do some research regarding your constant song of "Unionism is on the decline".

Perhaps you have been abroad for the last 28 years while the Administrations of some of the most ANTI UNIONISTS in our history have been Presidents.

Reagan,
Bush 1
Bush 2

ALL worked over time to kill American Unions through any means possible. The result, the loss of US manufacturing jobs in the tens of millions. The US once being the largest manufacturing nation on earth, all but have almost disappeared. There are clear factual reasons for the decline in Union membership in this nation and it has been orchestrated by corporate Masters.

SLAVERY was FREE labor whether you like it or not. Furthermore, if you can't see the correlation between FREE Labor (called SLAVERY) and working for things when you should be getting paid, and the historical anti Union sentiment of the Southern US (ONCE addicted to FREE LABOR from human bondage, also known as the American SLAVES that BUILT THE WHITE HOUSE and the US CAPITOL for FREE!)...that is an area you will just have to spend some time on.

Moreover, I'd be careful about using the term "ignorant" towards someone when my grammar and general communication skills are woefully deficient.

Now that's my "true" colors...what's yours?

 

[dapoes]

Well.. Missy,

How nice of you to take offense to history. If the term SLAVERY offends you that is a personal issue that you need to own. The scourge of SLAVERY belongs to ALL Americans not just those with a certain skin color.

Now if you would like for me to share a perspective of my view point on Slavery, anti unionism and the South, I will be more than happy to.

Here's some for starters. :

http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/curricul.htm

http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0969

I would also suggest you do some research regarding your constant song of "Unionism is on the decline".

Perhaps you have been abroad for the last 28 years while the Administrations of some of the most ANTI UNIONISTS in our history have been Presidents.

Reagan,
Bush 1
Bush 2

ALL worked over time to kill American Unions through any means possible. The result, the loss of US manufacturing jobs in the tens of millions. The US once being the largest manufacturing nation on earth, all but have almost disappeared. There are clear factual reasons for the decline in Union membership in this nation and it has been orchestrated by corporate Masters.

SLAVERY was FREE labor whether you like it or not. Furthermore, if you can't see the correlation between FREE Labor (called SLAVERY) and working for things when you should be getting paid, and the historical anti Union sentiment of the Southern US (ONCE addicted to FREE LABOR from human bondage, you know, the American SLAVES who BUILT THE WHITE HOUSE and the US CAPITOL for FREE!)...that is an area you will just have to spend some time on.

Moreover, I'd be careful about using the term "ignorant" towards someone when my grammar and general communication skills are woefully deficient.

Now that's my "true" colors...what's yours?

Oh I see, now its due to the presidents, right gotcha. Why is it when unions fail at gaining support they blame others rather then their own ineptitude? Just like when AFA couldn't get enough support with DAL this past May, they placed blame on everyone else except for themselves. Like they brought the holy grail and was turned away. Gotta love union arrogance at its best. Instead of trying to win the group over they chose spit on them and then wonder why they lost.

In case you haven't noticed what century your in, slavery went away back when some guy named Abraham Lincoln was president. Time to move on from that red-neck reasoning of southern labor = slavery.

In case you haven't noticed ATL is comprised of people from all over the country. So again your southern predisposition is highly flawed.

And....according to Bureau of Labor Statistics
union membership is on the decline.

 

[North by Northwest]

Oh I see, now its due to the presidents, right gotcha. Why is it when unions fail at gaining support they blame others rather then their own ineptitude? Just like when AFA couldn't get enough support with DAL this past May, they placed blame on everyone else except for themselves. Like they brought the holy grail and was turned away. Gotta love union arrogance at its best. Instead of trying to win the group over they chose spit on them and then wonder why they lost.

In case you haven't noticed what century your in, slavery went away back when some guy named Abraham Lincoln was president. Time to move on from that red-neck reasoning of southern labor = slavery.

In case you haven't noticed ATL is comprised of people from all over the country. So again your southern predisposition is highly flawed.

And....according to Bureau of Labor Statistics
union membership is on the decline.

Right...-

And the US still leads the world in manufacturing jobs+Union membership. Perhaps that is a little above your reasoning skills.

I suspect your grasp of Union membership declination is simply because people got tired of good wages and a voice in their working conditions.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/71700/

http://mondediplo.com/2004/02/04usa

As to your other Old Delta AFA question...I think we both know what went down, ya thought you were gonna get a leg up on NWA FAs in regards to "seniority", as you have in the past with Pan Am (talk about spitting on somebody). Wrongo...you just keep listening to your sweet talking NW Masters...all the way to arbitration. When you wake up your head will be spinning so fast you WILL think Lincoln is STILL the President.

Clearly you haven't learn anything even after losing an opportunity for a huge wage/benefit improvement...pilot contract mean anything to ya?

As for the color of my "neck" dearie...it depends on the time of the year and what resort I'm visiting. Sometimes it's RED...Brown...Tan...but NEVER "yellow" nor has it ever had a boot on it. It's really partial to Golden TAN in Southern California.

My Southern parents might disagree with you and your assessment of my take on "some" Southern/Northern, Western/ Eastern generalities.

And for the LOVE OF GOD...and the 20th time...PLEASE learn the proper usage of YOUR and YOU'RE! (esp. when you try to address some one as being "ignorant". You are too charming to present those kinds of mistakes.

I will be there for you to show you the light out of blind darkness whenever you are ready. I stand ready to assist you to leave the dark side.

I will win you over yet.

 

[Dignity]

I understand, but some feel its more complicated than that. Where do the
former PanAm F/A's fit in? Their adjusted date for bidding? or First day of training with Delta? or
Pan Am ? What about company transfers? What about former Western?
What about bidding for Vacation? With Delta, its based on DOH, not "first day of training in Job classification". A large can of worms...

my personal opinion is simply even if a company acquires/merge one aircraft, one route, and one employee they receive their DOH.

I do not think past integration combinations(what your company did to Pan Am seniority in particular) will be revisited for the new list, unfortunately.

It is not a "large can of worms" if the right thing is done from the beginning by respecting seniority as it is outlined by Date of Hire in a job classification, and my opinion is first day of training when combining a SSN list for bidding purposes.

maybe you should direct those questions to the Integration teams as my view is an opinion.


thank you for your perspective.

 

[1Conehead]

As to your other Old Delta AFA question...I think we both know what went down, ya thought you were gonna get a leg up on NWA FAs in regards to "seniority", as you have in the past with Pan Am (talk about spitting on somebody).

Pan Am was not a merger Delta bought some A/C ,routes,and equipment from a defunct business.

 

[Dignity]

Pan Am was not a merger Delta bought some A/C ,routes,and equipment from a defunct business.

how significant were International routes prior to the purchase of Pan Am's Atlantic Division and JFK Worldport in 1991?

 

[cooper43]

how significant were International routes prior to the purchase of Pan Am's Atlantic Division and JFK Worldport in 1991?

what does that really matter if Delta had not bought those assests and agreed to take some of thier employees they would have had nothing. Am i wrong? i am not saying that delta did not gain from the transaction but that is the way business works. it is entirely different than what is going on between delta and northwest. If we had not merged both airlines would still be flying.

 

[North by Northwest]

what does that really matter if Delta had not bought those assests and agreed to take some of thier employees they would have had nothing. Am i wrong? i am not saying that delta did not gain from the transaction but that is the way business works. it is entirely different than what is going on between delta and northwest. If we had not merged both airlines would still be flying.

Pan Am structured the deal with a requirement that Pan Am employees had to come with the routes. United (FIRST to enter a deal with PAA, hence the SA routes) was out bid by Delta. Delta was NOT the only interested party. United had guaranteed full seniority for Pan Am staff just as they had with the Pacific Div purchase.

So, no it was not dependent on Delta. Delta won the bid because it had promised additional financing for Pan Am to continue operating (which was withheld and caused the collapse of the airline).

Delta was one of many interested parties. Had Pan Am chosen United, there is a very real possibility that Delta would not be here today...so you see, Delta owes a great deal to Pan Am.

It is complicated and old news. The only relevant issue is that Pan Am staff would not had lost any seniority had they gone with United instead of Delta.

Delta was not the savior of Pan Am employees by any stretch. It was wrong to have done what was done to them (FAs) under any circumstances.

Now, that very same thing could happen to some Delta employees because greed and the temptation of possibly taking advantage of seniority of another carrier was just too tempting to pass up (at least that was what was allegedly hinted at by Delta management), hence the main reason 60% of FAs did not vote in the union election.

 

[Dignity]

what does that really matter

that does not answer the question.

its the way business works

 

[Kev3188]

Am i wrong?

Yes.

UA was also interested in PA at the time (or at least the European routes).

 

[dapoes]

Pan Am structured the deal with a requirement that Pan Am employees had to come with the routes. United (FIRST to enter a deal with PAA, hence the SA routes) was out bid by Delta. Delta was NOT the only interested party. United had guaranteed full seniority for Pan Am staff just as they had with the Pacific Div purchase.

So, no it was not dependent on Delta. Delta won the bid because it had promised additional financing for Pan Am to continue operating (which was withheld and caused the collapse of the airline).

Delta was one of many interested parties. Had Pan Am chosen United, there is a very real possibility that Delta would not be here today...so you see, Delta owes a great deal to Pan Am.

It is complicated and old news. The only relevant issue is that Pan Am staff would not had lost any seniority had they gone with United instead of Delta.

Delta was not the savior of Pan Am employees by any stretch. It was wrong to have done what was done to them (FAs) under any circumstances.

Now, that very same thing could happen to some Delta employees because greed and the temptation of possibly taking advantage of seniority of another carrier was just too tempting to pass up (at least that was what was allegedly hinted at by Delta management), hence the main reason 60% of FAs did not vote in the union election.

Wow, you are good! You should run for office! You can put a spin on almost anything. Almost...

 

[North by Northwest]

Wow, you are good! You should run for office! You can put a spin on almost anything. Almost...

Some always prefer to see the truth as spin. Please inform me of the correct chain of events?

Let's work together with getting out the truth! The light will take you to new heights.