Former Usair Chief Defends Airport Agreement

[cavalier]

"i just got a letter from the union that f/a's are not to help utility clean the a/c because that's their job and not the f/a's. things like this is what hurt our company. why can't i help a cleaner if it means this plane will be turned around quickly and it will get us out on time."



Because it's the CLEANERS job. It's a contract signed and agreed to by management. It will eliminate a cleaners job. But I guess you don't care as long as you keep your pay check coming in. This management team loves your mind set. Total anti-union self centered screw the next guy I need mine attitude, management loves you. Hope you're proud


"this is what i mean about working together. thats what makes luv ,j-blu, and the others so succesful. we need to look at the big picture here. and its our customers. many of you may not agree with me but thats where i stand on this. we can't let mangement turn us against each other cause thats what they want"


Your attitude does the turning all by itself without help from management.



"i know that there are cleaners that are layed off and that if i pick up that means i am doing that cleaners job. but if we keep with the whole "oh well they wanted to lay people off ,its not my problem" bit. this company ain't going nowhere. let me tell it is our problem. because when that flight is disrupted operationaly . wether its because of an abusive sick call, no cleaners or what ever the fact. we lose cause those people ain't coming back to u. and those people pay our bills.
so if you don't agree with me so be it. everyone is entitled to there own opinion. but we are trying to run a business here. i say we because management is at the crystal palace sitting on there asses. we are the ones out there on the line making this airline work everyday. if we don't care even if mangement doesen't care. heck screw them . but lets not screw our selves."

"Just screw the cleaners huh!"


i really don't want to hear it.


"Then don't post such self serving BS and you won't hear it!"

 

[Smoke and Mirrors]

From this outsiders view point; I think that it is an excellent idea for the flight crews to assist with the cleaning duties. The word is called TEAM WORK. This is something that many of the union members don’t fully understand. Your company is in a vulnerable quandary where all options must be considered. As your CEO has stated numerous times, “everything is on the tableâ€￾.

The unions must not dwell on the past, but look towards the future and how they can assist their management team in salvaging the company. If I were a union member then I would do everything in my power to work with my leaders. They are your present and future hope to maintain the current workforce.

Etops1, I commend you for seeing the infinite forest and not only looking at the trees. You understand the true definition of teamwork and helping out your fellow workers. IMO, this is the type of leadership and dedication that your company could use on the management front lines. Pitbull, you could learn a lot from this poster Etops1, as they do not allow their emotions to get the best of them.

I think that it is an excellent idea to increase the flight attendant’s salaries by a few dollars to clean the aircraft. The utility must understand that the job description can easily be outsourced and many inexpensive replacements can be found to reduce labor costs. Your company can’t continue paying this group $19 hr when there is a greater potential to reduce costs in many areas within this classification. I personally would take your low and high salary and average them together and pay the group $15 hr to $16 hr. There are many workers that would love to have this job that pays $9.08 hr. Lets not even mention the current 2.5 days of vacation per month, which will increase to 3.5 in 2008, and the 9 sick days per year. There is not reason to pay 2 employees benefits when paying 1 flight attendant extra salary for assisting in the utility work.

Back to Pitbull now, of course you dare not discuss the positive incentives that are happening within your group. The flight attendants received an E-line this weekend from the AFA detailing the 2% pay increase. $41.05 is an excellent salary even though you have claimed that its poverty wages. There was an excellent article today in the Post-Gazette with one of your fellow Reserve flight attendants and how she and her spouse are able to live on her salary alone. The new ACARS system is great (from what I hear) and will more accurately track block time.

 

[700UW]

Lets see there are 1,002 utility in the whole system including base maintenace, there are only utility at 8 stations on three shifts and the remaining ten are third shift only. So are we gonna have F/A working third shift all night long making way more then what a $17.13 utility person makes?

Your logic is faulted, lets pay someone all ready making more money then lower paid workers to do the job.

Boy that is some real cost savings, and there is a SIDA problem, how is the F/A gonna be allowed on the ramp unescorted to get supplies, go dump trash, dump lavs and do water servicing too?

Guess we need to staff F/As in base mtc now so they can crawl into the wing fuel tank and clean them then go serve passengers on flights?

Since you are not an employee, I can understand how you dont realize what the whole operation entails.

And Utility workers only get 10 sick days a year and if you have 11 years you only get 3 weeks vacation, your numbers are way off base.

 

[cavalier]

Let's all step out of our IAM, AFA, CWU, TWU, ALPA, & PAX boxes for a minute and LOOK at what we have heard.

What I have taken from the rumor mongering is that essentially Dave wants to cut cost by adding aircraft and flying with the same number of employees. That would be positive on the surface. an Additional 60 M/L jets takes the total to 339, which if you divde by the number of employees you get down into the J/B, SWA numbers, also good? Profits should return in relatively short order considering the RJ's are coming on line.

As somone else posted the devil is in the details. The challenge as I see it is for the union leadership to exercise some and think outside the box and find ways to make the plan work with a minimum of disruption to the various divergent groups. Scope clauses must be liberalized! But not for free. Labor has to get something in return. WHAT, I have no idea, whatever it is there must be a WIIFM (what's in it for me) for labor. A significant boost in profit sharing might be a place to start.

The SWA work rules are a possible model to work from. The bottom line to me is that if all of the interested parties stay within their respective "boxes" then that is where that company will end up! In a box commonly known as a coffin.

Here's the trouble Bob.

We don't trust this guy as far as we can can throw him, he has lost all creditability with labor. The 60 A/C he mentioned he also failed to mention what exactly does that mean, mainline, outsource, time frame what does it mean. He is one desperate CEO and funny how 60 A/C came at the exact same time as his head is on the chopping block. These are the reasons the unions want him out. No one can believe a word his says because deception is part of his modus operandi. What you're saying makes sense, but not with this character in charge.

 

[700UW]

Bob, don't take this the wrong way, but I dont get paid 6 or 7 figured salaries to run this airline. I am done helping Dave until he restores the trust he has lost.

 

[PITbull]

etops,

The MEC would have to go to the table now wouldn't they? Who said the MEC was going to the table to OPEN up our contract on ANYTHING????

Managment has just stolen another aprrox 5 minutes of pay per leg with the ACARS? They ar setting the stage to "lure" the MEC to the table, to force us to negotiate more "work rules" and quality of life "give backs" for what? Where does it end? AFA has over 100 grievances with these restructuring agreements this past 18 months. There will be no more "gives". There will not be an opening of our contract unitl Sec. 6 Dec. 31, 20008.

ITS NOT HAPPENING. Kiss your $4 rumor "GOOD BYE".

Bob,

We already have "profit sharing" that is Lump Sum, and will yeild nothing because it is capped at the first $100 million for all employees in 2007 and 2008 only. Our analysts said it will yeild us basically nothing and is insignificant. You have confused the "rank and file" unionized group with senior mangement's profit sharing....now that's worth alot!

 

[nycbusdriver]

As you note, Colodney stated that they insisted on building the airport because of over crowding in the old airport. I remeber that so well. You couldn't even walk in the terminal.

Colodney was a great CEO. WE miss his leadership. If he were sitting in that seat today, we would have given him what he requested in concessions. Why? Because he is an honorable man who deals in good faith, knows USAirways inside and out, and would have adapted to the times as a team together.

Yes. We would have given him the concessions, indeed.

That planet that you inhabit. Is there any oxygen at all there?

Or is it just what you're smoking?

 

[RedOne]

Trust is also a key issue. I'd look them right in the eye and ask them "Given all that's happened, Why should I trust you now?"

About 14yrs ago, the company that hired me was unfortunately bought. The buyer told those who had been "purchased" "We look after our employees." Unfortunately, I and other F/S agents listened to that management team, and I made the biggest mistake of my airline career...I helped vote out the Teamsters who were then representing, I think, 5 F/S cities and wanted to represent us all. I bought what management said.
...Things started going downhill for F/S agents almost immedately. With each new leadership team it got worse. Finally, we sought union representation again. To bad we selected the union we got...but we are better off with them than without them. Point is, we all have unions because of the treatment of years/leaderships past. They proved we couldn't trust em to treat us fairly years ago...this team has proved we cant trust em today. Proceed with caution.
...Let's all abide by our contracts and not infringe on our brothers.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Has anyone considered the fact that UAIR maybe is NOT a GREAT company. Maybe it is structurally flawed and cannot be fixed by anyone. It is quite possible it would be in the ash heap of history if it were not for the ATSB Loan. It is possible that this government intervention only prolonged the demise a year or two. Just some food for thought. 🙁

I disagree that it's food for thought.

Your post is prophetic. Anyone working here who is not ready for USairways to shut the doors within a year is going to be rudely awakened when it happens.

 

[PITbull]

S&M,

I think your more on the line of a Dr. Bronner look-a-like. Your not managment? My butt! Tell your inside cronny buddies, we are not coming to any table. You already have a history of violating contracts, why would we set ourselves up again?

Our group has positive incentives????? I am IN A POSITION TO KNOW! How dare you dismiss our suffering!
Funny, you cite the "top out" f/as but omited our work week of 20 hours. How about the Reserve who took a 38% pay cut with the new reserve system? Care to elaborate Einstien NOT!

You just captured back the 2% from the ACARS changes from all the flight crews, and even managed to steal more than that you piece of S#$@!
AND THAT WAS NOT AN INCREASE BUT A SMALL "SNAP BACK" OF OUR WAGES THAT WE GAVE YOU IN SUMMER OF 2002. WHICH THIS MANAGMENT ALREADY BLEW AWAY, BY NOT WATCHING THE BACK DOOR!

PS: THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WAS FOUGHT ON EMOTION....ANGER! They were not singing "Kumbaya" with the British!

 

[tadjr]

"i just got a letter from the union that f/a's are not to help utility clean the a/c because that's their job and not the f/a's. things like this is what hurt our company. why can't i help a cleaner if it means this plane will be turned around quickly and it will get us out on time."



Because it's the CLEANERS job. It's a contract signed and agreed to by management. It will eliminate a cleaners job. But I guess you don't care as long as you keep your pay check coming in. This management team loves your mind set. Total anti-union self centered screw the next guy I need mine attitude, management loves you. Hope you're proud

If some flight attendants were more PROACTIVE in collecting items before landing, asking for the paper stuffed in the seatback pocket or actually taking items customers are trying to give them as they walk down the aisle, you'd be doing your job and helping with the quick turn without actually taking the cleaners job and cleaning the plane while its on the ground. I have seen some great crews that have the plane looking incredible when it comes in and others that look like a paper bomb exploded and no one noticed. I know sometimes its hard to get people to actually give you their papers (they want them and then forget them), or the kids were a little hyper and destructive and there is nothing that the crew can do to clean those in the air, but the more collected in the air, the easier time the utility or ramp guys would have cleaning whats leftover when the plane is theirs at the gate to clean.

Just to keep this on topic, I'll add that I never knew or worked for Uncle Ed, but the old Pittsburgh airport was a mess. There is no way it could have continued to be a hub the way it was, cramped and dirty. I'm sure the good people of PIT could have settled for a smaller version of a new airport, but they, along with management were expecting the best for the future and now are stuck with it. I'm sure a lot of things would have been different (company and airport wise) if we knew then what we know now.

 

[PITbull]

Tadjir,

F/as are already making announcements every "leg" to collect trash in the air, specifically before landing. Not all pax give them up.

 

[etops1]

pitt the rumor about f/a being paid to clean a/c is not my rumor. i did not make it up. i heard it on the line. i found it very interesting that's why i shared it with you guys. and as far as cleaning goes . it was said that f/a will only clean the cabin. meaning pick up trash from seats and seat pockets only.things that we already do in some stations to help on turn around times. other trash pick up such as galley and lavatories are to be done by utility. i will tell you right now that if the company proposes this with a 4 dollar an hour increase in wages. the majority of the f/a group will go for it. it all comes down to money baby. and god knows we need it. so take your prozac and chill. B)

 

[PITbull]

pitt the rumor about f/a being paid to clean a/c is not my rumor. i did not make it up. i heard it on the line. i found it very interesting that's why i shared it with you guys. and as far as cleaning goes . it was said that f/a will only clean the cabin. meaning pick up trash from seats and seat pockets only.things that we already do in some stations to help on turn around times. other trash pick up such as galley and lavatories are to be done by utility. i will tell you right now that if the company proposes this with a 4 dollar an hour increase in wages. the majority of the f/a group will go for it. it all comes down to money baby. and god knows we need it. so take your prozac and chill. B)

IF AFA does not go to the table to OPEN up the contracts (because it won't be for just 1 item) YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR RUMORED $4.

You say "majority" will go for it ? What did you do...poll f/as? Do you have that data?

So, no drugs here, lucid as can be, there won't be a vote for you to have, specifically to cost someone else their job, to give you $$$. AFA can't be bought. This is how management is able to divide the labor groups from one another. We are not on board with that plan.

"THOSE WHO GIVE UP ESSENTIAL LIBERTY FOR A LITTLE SAFETY; DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY OR SAFETY' - Ben Franklin

 

[lindy]

Tadjir,

F/as are already making announcements every "leg" to collect trash in the air, specifically before landing. Not all pax give them up.

PB,

This is a true indication of how out of touch you are. In the last 3 weeks, I have
been a non-rev on 10 flights ( had to do a lot of visiting over the holidays.)

Not once did I hear the F/A's mention trash pick-up. This is not to say it hasn't been done because I have been witness to that occurring.

For you to say it is done on every flight, not so. You need to fly a trip.

Lindy 😉