Flight Attendant Proposal Details
- Thread starter Bear96
- Start date
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On 12/22/2002 1:07:48 PM Busdrvr wrote:
... the real issue with me is the ludicrous other provisions they are seeking. 4.5-1 for trip rigs? YGTBSM...
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[/blockquote]
Busdrvr I agree, the extent of the gutting of the work rules is probably the biggest shock for us to. I imagine the ALPA proposal contains very similar concepts to ours in terms of work rule changes.
This job has always paid poorly but the work rule contract provisions still made it an enjoyable enough lifestyle to stick around. Now pay is going from bad to worse, and the work rules that made this job bearable look like they're doomed.
BTW where did you get the details for pass travel charges? I had heard they were being reintroduced but I was hoping they would be similar to what they were before.
Someone else mentioned that this isn't "final and binding" and that there is some room for negotiating. That remains to be seen. From what I understand the company has indicated there is *some* room for negotiating, but not much. And since the unions have been making progressively more strongly worded public statements lately about the status of any negotiations, that leads me to think the company is getting ready to put either these term sheets or ones only slightly less worse in front of the judge to implement.
It is puzzling. I guess Tilton's labor honeymoon is over. Union leadership and Tilton went pretty quickly from making statements about how great they were working together only two weeks ago, to today's statements of gutting of work rules and pay and reintroducing pass travel charges and thinly veiled legal threats. It's a strange strategy senior management has seem to adopted, to be sure; and not likely to lead to a successful outcome for UA.
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On 12/22/2002 1:07:48 PM Busdrvr wrote:
... the real issue with me is the ludicrous other provisions they are seeking. 4.5-1 for trip rigs? YGTBSM...
----------------
[/blockquote]
Busdrvr I agree, the extent of the gutting of the work rules is probably the biggest shock for us to. I imagine the ALPA proposal contains very similar concepts to ours in terms of work rule changes.
This job has always paid poorly but the work rule contract provisions still made it an enjoyable enough lifestyle to stick around. Now pay is going from bad to worse, and the work rules that made this job bearable look like they're doomed.
BTW where did you get the details for pass travel charges? I had heard they were being reintroduced but I was hoping they would be similar to what they were before.
Someone else mentioned that this isn't "final and binding" and that there is some room for negotiating. That remains to be seen. From what I understand the company has indicated there is *some* room for negotiating, but not much. And since the unions have been making progressively more strongly worded public statements lately about the status of any negotiations, that leads me to think the company is getting ready to put either these term sheets or ones only slightly less worse in front of the judge to implement.
It is puzzling. I guess Tilton's labor honeymoon is over. Union leadership and Tilton went pretty quickly from making statements about how great they were working together only two weeks ago, to today's statements of gutting of work rules and pay and reintroducing pass travel charges and thinly veiled legal threats. It's a strange strategy senior management has seem to adopted, to be sure; and not likely to lead to a successful outcome for UA.
[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 1:07:48 PM Busdrvr wrote:
... the real issue with me is the ludicrous other provisions they are seeking. 4.5-1 for trip rigs? YGTBSM...
----------------
[/blockquote]
Busdrvr I agree, the extent of the gutting of the work rules is probably the biggest shock for us to. I imagine the ALPA proposal contains very similar concepts to ours in terms of work rule changes.
This job has always paid poorly but the work rule contract provisions still made it an enjoyable enough lifestyle to stick around. Now pay is going from bad to worse, and the work rules that made this job bearable look like they're doomed.
BTW where did you get the details for pass travel charges? I had heard they were being reintroduced but I was hoping they would be similar to what they were before.
Someone else mentioned that this isn't "final and binding" and that there is some room for negotiating. That remains to be seen. From what I understand the company has indicated there is *some* room for negotiating, but not much. And since the unions have been making progressively more strongly worded public statements lately about the status of any negotiations, that leads me to think the company is getting ready to put either these term sheets or ones only slightly less worse in front of the judge to implement.
It is puzzling. I guess Tilton's labor honeymoon is over. Union leadership and Tilton went pretty quickly from making statements about how great they were working together only two weeks ago, to today's statements of gutting of work rules and pay and reintroducing pass travel charges and thinly veiled legal threats. It's a strange strategy senior management has seem to adopted, to be sure; and not likely to lead to a successful outcome for UA.
----------------
On 12/22/2002 1:07:48 PM Busdrvr wrote:
... the real issue with me is the ludicrous other provisions they are seeking. 4.5-1 for trip rigs? YGTBSM...
----------------
[/blockquote]
Busdrvr I agree, the extent of the gutting of the work rules is probably the biggest shock for us to. I imagine the ALPA proposal contains very similar concepts to ours in terms of work rule changes.
This job has always paid poorly but the work rule contract provisions still made it an enjoyable enough lifestyle to stick around. Now pay is going from bad to worse, and the work rules that made this job bearable look like they're doomed.
BTW where did you get the details for pass travel charges? I had heard they were being reintroduced but I was hoping they would be similar to what they were before.
Someone else mentioned that this isn't "final and binding" and that there is some room for negotiating. That remains to be seen. From what I understand the company has indicated there is *some* room for negotiating, but not much. And since the unions have been making progressively more strongly worded public statements lately about the status of any negotiations, that leads me to think the company is getting ready to put either these term sheets or ones only slightly less worse in front of the judge to implement.
It is puzzling. I guess Tilton's labor honeymoon is over. Union leadership and Tilton went pretty quickly from making statements about how great they were working together only two weeks ago, to today's statements of gutting of work rules and pay and reintroducing pass travel charges and thinly veiled legal threats. It's a strange strategy senior management has seem to adopted, to be sure; and not likely to lead to a successful outcome for UA.
You're all correct about the wage reductions being the least of our worries. The proposed "health insurance" changes have the potential to bankrupt people unfortunate enough to have conditions requiring "name brand" meds.
I hope we don't drop service to Canada or Mexico...we'll need to fly there to get affordable meds! And the current administration certainly won't be lifting a finger to engineer a national heath insurance program!
![14.gif']](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg+src%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F14.gif%27%5D&hash=2e192c9453e16adbace959e22aa3e4aa)
I hope we don't drop service to Canada or Mexico...we'll need to fly there to get affordable meds! And the current administration certainly won't be lifting a finger to engineer a national heath insurance program!
You're all correct about the wage reductions being the least of our worries. The proposed "health insurance" changes have the potential to bankrupt people unfortunate enough to have conditions requiring "name brand" meds.
I hope we don't drop service to Canada or Mexico...we'll need to fly there to get affordable meds! And the current administration certainly won't be lifting a finger to engineer a national heath insurance program!
I hope we don't drop service to Canada or Mexico...we'll need to fly there to get affordable meds! And the current administration certainly won't be lifting a finger to engineer a national heath insurance program!
[blockquote]
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767jetz wrote:
As much as these proposals will be hard to swallow for all, I just want to remind everyone to take a peak at what's going on at USAir. If we do this right and get it done the first time around, we will be much better off in the long run.
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[/blockquote]
Getting it done the first time won't make a difference. The DIP's will just want more and they will come back for more. It will never end till they have torn UA and it's employees apart. These people are not interested in saving UAL. They just want money and will stop at nothing to get it. All of us will be working for wages from the 80's and benefits that date back even farther.
I feel its time for people to wake up and start looking for another job. This isn't about if you don't like it here leave. We will all be leaving soon. The only recovery plan they have is to rape the employee's. Rather than telling me we have to work together a pilot looked at me and said I'M OUT OF HERE THIS COMPANY SUCKS. Surprised me.
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767jetz wrote:
As much as these proposals will be hard to swallow for all, I just want to remind everyone to take a peak at what's going on at USAir. If we do this right and get it done the first time around, we will be much better off in the long run.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Getting it done the first time won't make a difference. The DIP's will just want more and they will come back for more. It will never end till they have torn UA and it's employees apart. These people are not interested in saving UAL. They just want money and will stop at nothing to get it. All of us will be working for wages from the 80's and benefits that date back even farther.
I feel its time for people to wake up and start looking for another job. This isn't about if you don't like it here leave. We will all be leaving soon. The only recovery plan they have is to rape the employee's. Rather than telling me we have to work together a pilot looked at me and said I'M OUT OF HERE THIS COMPANY SUCKS. Surprised me.
[blockquote]
----------------
767jetz wrote:
As much as these proposals will be hard to swallow for all, I just want to remind everyone to take a peak at what's going on at USAir. If we do this right and get it done the first time around, we will be much better off in the long run.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Getting it done the first time won't make a difference. The DIP's will just want more and they will come back for more. It will never end till they have torn UA and it's employees apart. These people are not interested in saving UAL. They just want money and will stop at nothing to get it. All of us will be working for wages from the 80's and benefits that date back even farther.
I feel its time for people to wake up and start looking for another job. This isn't about if you don't like it here leave. We will all be leaving soon. The only recovery plan they have is to rape the employee's. Rather than telling me we have to work together a pilot looked at me and said I'M OUT OF HERE THIS COMPANY SUCKS. Surprised me.
----------------
767jetz wrote:
As much as these proposals will be hard to swallow for all, I just want to remind everyone to take a peak at what's going on at USAir. If we do this right and get it done the first time around, we will be much better off in the long run.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Getting it done the first time won't make a difference. The DIP's will just want more and they will come back for more. It will never end till they have torn UA and it's employees apart. These people are not interested in saving UAL. They just want money and will stop at nothing to get it. All of us will be working for wages from the 80's and benefits that date back even farther.
I feel its time for people to wake up and start looking for another job. This isn't about if you don't like it here leave. We will all be leaving soon. The only recovery plan they have is to rape the employee's. Rather than telling me we have to work together a pilot looked at me and said I'M OUT OF HERE THIS COMPANY SUCKS. Surprised me.
[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote:
-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.
-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.
-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.
RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:
-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.
[/blockquote]
Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
----------------
On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote:
-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.
-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.
-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.
RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:
-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.
[/blockquote]
Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote:
-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.
-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.
-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.
RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:
-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.
[/blockquote]
Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
----------------
On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote:
-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.
-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.
-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.
RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:
-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.
[/blockquote]
Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/24/2002 6:35:02 AM pk45cu wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote: [BR][BR]-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.[BR][BR]-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.[BR][BR]-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.[BR][BR]RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:[BR][BR]-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.[BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I work for US Airways, but according to our contract I will take a stab at it.[BR][BR]Quarterly max--flight time hours[BR]Elimination of 8 in 24--means 8 air hours in a 24 hour period (with our contract we can be on duty 14 hours (normal operation) 15 hours (irregular operation) yet only be in the air and paid for 8, I assume UAL is the same) 1 in 7 is probably a required 24 hour duty break in a 7 day period.[BR]30 in 7 is 30 air hours in a 7 day period. [BR]Trip rig 1 for 4.5 is for every 4.5 hours on duty you receive 1 hour of pay.[BR]Retirement multiplier reduction is 1.3% (x) final average earnings (x) years of service (don't know their maximum number of allowable years.)
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/24/2002 6:35:02 AM pk45cu wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote: [BR][BR]-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.[BR][BR]-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.[BR][BR]-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.[BR][BR]RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:[BR][BR]-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.[BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I work for US Airways, but according to our contract I will take a stab at it.[BR][BR]Quarterly max--flight time hours[BR]Elimination of 8 in 24--means 8 air hours in a 24 hour period (with our contract we can be on duty 14 hours (normal operation) 15 hours (irregular operation) yet only be in the air and paid for 8, I assume UAL is the same) 1 in 7 is probably a required 24 hour duty break in a 7 day period.[BR]30 in 7 is 30 air hours in a 7 day period. [BR]Trip rig 1 for 4.5 is for every 4.5 hours on duty you receive 1 hour of pay.[BR]Retirement multiplier reduction is 1.3% (x) final average earnings (x) years of service (don't know their maximum number of allowable years.)
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/24/2002 6:35:02 AM pk45cu wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote: [BR][BR]-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.[BR][BR]-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.[BR][BR]-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.[BR][BR]RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:[BR][BR]-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.[BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I work for US Airways, but according to our contract I will take a stab at it.[BR][BR]Quarterly max--flight time hours[BR]Elimination of 8 in 24--means 8 air hours in a 24 hour period (with our contract we can be on duty 14 hours (normal operation) 15 hours (irregular operation) yet only be in the air and paid for 8, I assume UAL is the same) 1 in 7 is probably a required 24 hour duty break in a 7 day period.[BR]30 in 7 is 30 air hours in a 7 day period. [BR]Trip rig 1 for 4.5 is for every 4.5 hours on duty you receive 1 hour of pay.[BR]Retirement multiplier reduction is 1.3% (x) final average earnings (x) years of service (don't know their maximum number of allowable years.)
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/24/2002 6:35:02 AM pk45cu wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/22/2002 9:09:56 AM Bear96 wrote: [BR][BR]-- Quarterly maximums increase to 90/180/255 with opting to 95/190/270.[BR][BR]-- Elimination of: 8-in-24; 1-in-7; 30-in-7; all duty rigs; and one for three after four.[BR][BR]-- Time away from home trip rig reduced to 1 for 4.5 instead of 1 for 3.5.[BR][BR]RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE:[BR][BR]-- Retirement multiplier reduced from 2.22% to 1.3%.[BR][BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Can someone explain to this layman what these 4 lines mean? Thanks.
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]I work for US Airways, but according to our contract I will take a stab at it.[BR][BR]Quarterly max--flight time hours[BR]Elimination of 8 in 24--means 8 air hours in a 24 hour period (with our contract we can be on duty 14 hours (normal operation) 15 hours (irregular operation) yet only be in the air and paid for 8, I assume UAL is the same) 1 in 7 is probably a required 24 hour duty break in a 7 day period.[BR]30 in 7 is 30 air hours in a 7 day period. [BR]Trip rig 1 for 4.5 is for every 4.5 hours on duty you receive 1 hour of pay.[BR]Retirement multiplier reduction is 1.3% (x) final average earnings (x) years of service (don't know their maximum number of allowable years.)
