First Class Flying: A Solution

[whlinder]

KC, we are not going to have this converstaion again. You don't fly anymore and when you do, you have to sit in coach. It bothers you. It is apparent to all here. Get over it. If you want to fly up front, either fly more or pay for it.

[post="258353"][/post]​

It isn't apparant to me that KC is bothered by your upgrades.

OK rocket scientist, let me ask you question. How much did they lose on that seat if no one bought it? If some paid $200, that is $200 more than had to start with and the seat was still going to be flown with out anyone in it.

We had a discussion yesterday on the marginal cost to US for transporting a passenger. In my guesstimation, if that is a transcon flight, which I thought it was in the original example, US loses money by selling that ticket if the passenger is re-routed onto another airline or if they lose their bags. What are the odds of that happening? The rants about the operational problems of the company would imply that it is pretty good. This idea of 'my ticket is revenue they wouldn't have otherwise had' has got to stop. There is a marginal cost of flying an additional passenger and it is probably higher on US than any other airline. You posted yesterday how a $10 ticket is revenue to a company flying empty seats since they have fixed costs of flying the flight anyway. Believe me, it costs more than $10 to fly an additional passenger. Marginal cost is less than actual cost (CASM), and it is a good idea to sell tickets between CASM and marginal cost in order to effectively price discriminate, but there is a marginal cost and it is not zero.

 

[KCFlyer]

OK rocket scientist, let me ask you question. How much did they lose on that seat if no one bought it? If some paid $200, that is $200 more than had to start with and the seat was still going to be flown with out anyone in it.

Not a rocket scientist, thanks anyways. There's that argument that I was expecting - it would have gone out empty anyways. And, I would submit to you that if there were a program in place that kept F class seats available until departure, and with a modification of the fare structure that I mentioned, there's a damn good chance that the seat would not only have gone out filled, but filled with someone who payed more than $200. At any rate, you are making the assumption that the coach seat you bought would also be filled - if not, then there is still an empty seat on the plane. By the way, I didn't realize brain surgeons travelled so much.

The problem is management has destroyed this airline. The point you should be making is that the product has become so bad in the eyes of the flying public, they can't even sell out a plane with $29 go fares. No one wants to fly this pig any more. She stinks.

No argument that managment has destroyed this airline, but it seems to me that as long as managment focused on cost cuts that didn't impact you directly, everything was okay, but when they tried controlling costs associated with their DM program, they had crossed the line. In the meantime, labor has take two ADDITIONAL cuts in pay and benefits and many have been furloughed. And you wonder why service stinks? Now to be honest with you, I doubt that the proposed cuts in the DM program would have reduced the chances that those pay cuts and furloughs would have occured. But it turns out that those cuts that didn't impact you directly really DID impact you - fewer employees equates to less service.

However since "you" haven't been on a US flight in a very long time you have no clue. So don't come on here and try to be an expert. You have proven you do have no idea what you are talking about time and time again

No, I haven't flown US in a long time. Does that mean I have no clue about the issues facing them? So if I take a flight tomorrow and return, you'll lend more creedence to my posts? I'm not trying to be any "expert", I deal more in common sense - and common sense dictates that if it costs an airline $500 to fly a seat between two points, and you're paying $200 for that seat, you really aren't doing the airline any favors. Now...please do me a favor, take that bolded sentence and prove to me where I have no idea of what I am talking about. And yes, I've heard the "overall revenue" y'all bring in - because I seriously doubt that you've brought in enough to cover the costs of carrying you.

 

[longing4piedmont]

=
No, I haven't flown US in a long time. Does that mean I have no clue about the issues facing them?

[post="258373"][/post]​

Yes

 

[SKY HIGH]

The point you should be making is that the product has become so bad in the eyes of the flying public, they can't even sell out a plane with $29 go fares. No one wants to fly this pig any more.


Sky high states: Ok, But, no one wants to fly?
usairways.com Sets Record (march 8, 2005)
ARLINGTON - Usairways.com again has set a new record for both ticket sales and revenue, thanks in large part to the systemwide fare sale.

In overwhelming response to the low fares available across US Airways’ network, close to 331,000 customers visited usairways.com yesterday. By midnight, almost 21,000 tickets were sold. This represents a 54 percent increase week over week and is almost double the volume of tickets sold during the same time frame last year. This also drove a 46 percent increase in revenue year over year.

 

[KCFlyer]

Yes

[post="258374"][/post]​

So I'll plan on a flight. I'll most likely pay $200 for my ticket - what should I expect?

You know, your perspective might be clouded a bit because you fly too much. think of it this way, if you throw a frog in boiling water, it'll be shocked pretty bad. But if you put a frog in cold water, then slowly heat it, he'll never really notice the predicament he's in until it's too late.

 

[longing4piedmont]

The point you should be making is that the product has become so bad in the eyes of the flying public, they can't even sell out a plane with $29 go fares. No one wants to fly this pig any more.
Sky high states: Ok, But, no one wants to fly?
usairways.com Sets Record (march 8, 2005)
ARLINGTON - Usairways.com again has set a new record for both ticket sales and revenue, thanks in large part to the systemwide fare sale.

In overwhelming response to the low fares available across US Airways’ network, close to 331,000 customers visited usairways.com yesterday. By midnight, almost 21,000 tickets were sold. This represents a 54 percent increase week over week and is almost double the volume of tickets sold during the same time frame last year. This also drove a 46 percent increase in revenue year over year.

[post="258375"][/post]​

Wow. Great numbers. Almost 6% of the people who heard about the wonderful give away fares (because they don't have a clue on how to sell them for something close to break even) bought. That is sure a vote of confidence. Of course the figure might have been higher if the web site had actually completed all of the transactions attempted before crashing on the award winning usairways.com.

 

[longing4piedmont]

You know, your perspective might be clouded a bit because you fly too much.

[post="258376"][/post]​

And yours because you don't fly at all? :blink:

Gee, I really like this taking certain points out of a post and responding to it. Thanks. You and UVN have taught us well

 

[KCFlyer]

And yours becasue you don't fly at all? :blink:

Gee, I really like this taking certain points out of a post and responding to it. Thanks. You and UVN have taught us well

[post="258389"][/post]​

Who said I don't fly at all? I've flown Southwest enough in the past year to get two RR tickets...my 11 year old got one, we also flew on those tickets to take a cruise. Many of those trips were full fare, fully refundable tickets that I used to two step to Dallas on because of medical issues with my mother. I've flown Delta, American and Airtran a few times in the past year. So I wouldn't say I "never" fly. I just don't do the weekly flights anymore. I don't make ASSumptions about you or your knowledge of the airline industry. I can't help if you ASSume that because I am not an "elite" passenger, I know not what I speak of.

 

[TomBascom]

I would submit to you that if there were a program in place that kept F class seats available until departure, and with a modification of the fare structure that I mentioned, there's a damn good chance that the seat would not only have gone out filled, but filled with someone who payed more than $200.

This is pretty much how the program works. Only some F seats are released for upgrade prior to departure. Almost every flight has F seats open until the last minute and an F seat can be sold, for full F fare right up to that point. Customers who pay more for their tickets (like l4pi very often does) are already treated preferentially over those who are paying lesser fares.

From an inventory control POV and a customer prioritization perspective they are already doing what you say (and I agree) needs to be done.

From a marketing and operational POV they're bumbling idiots who couldn't run a lemonade stand.

 

[TomBascom]

if it costs an airline $500 to fly a seat between two points, and you're paying $200 for that seat, you really aren't doing the airline any favors.

Averages are very dangerous beasts -- airlines don't fly a seat. They fly planes that have many seats which are sold for many different prices.

IMHO you're doing the airline more long term harm by buying a $2,000 ticket and encouraging their unsustainable addiction to BlowFares than you are by buying the $29 ticket that is only available in limited and heavily restricted quantities.

 

[KCFlyer]

WOW!!! So what do you want?? A Cookie?

Where did you use your RR tickets? For a romantic vacation to Amarillo?

I took my miles and went to AMS in Envoy Class. What a delight.

[post="258393"][/post]​

L4P...how is this post different from Class Envy?

Bob, no, I don't want a cookie....do you want an UPGRADE?

Nope, I don't travel as much as the good old cockroaches Bob, but you know something, I'd be willing to lay you odds that the money I spent with Southwest this past year provided them with a higher yield that all of your tickets on US this year. And you know something? Even paying full fare on Southwest, I didn't break the bank account. Now you want Southwest prices but "linens and silver and hot meals in first"....without paying for first. I'll save my airline of choice the cost of a cookie and in return, all I ask of them is to keep those low full fares available to me.

Nope, didn't go to Amarillo...but I did use them to fly to Fort Lauderdale where I had a balcony cabin on the Holland America Zuiderdam for an Eastern Caribbean cruise. Talk about your good hot meals, boy did they have 'em. I tip my hat to Southwest for making it all possible.

Finally, thanks for this post, as it exposes you for what I've felt you've been all along...a self important snob.

 

[mweiss]

I think Alaska has a winning idea

I think so, too. I'm very happy with them.

I realize that such a solution would be blasted by you and the other "cockroach" members because the risk is high that there won't be enough seats in F left for you to upgrade to.

I'm not a US roach, but...it certainly didn't make me happy when CO changed their program to make it harder for me to upgrade. I didn't blast it, though. I started a thread on FlyerTalk about it, and how it was going to drive me away from CO, but I acknowledged then and now that I was one of the customers who was probably costing them money. Can't fault them for being smarter about who they wanted.

 

[CynicalResAgent]

WOW!!! So what do you want?? A Cookie?

Where did you use your RR tickets? For a romantic vacation to Amarillo?

I took my miles and went to AMS in Envoy Class. What a delight.

[post="258393"][/post]​

LOL, I have pointed this out to people whom complain in the past....

One night I someone reamed me, I mean really cursed and sweared because the award seats to VCE were sold out for the holiday period he was asking for..... then he added that WN has a much better FF program. I lost it , apologized for the lack of seats and kindly added that if he were talking to WN he might be able to get seats to Venice beach CA, via LAX but not Venice italy so were talking apples and oranges here....

Ok maybe sometimes were talking rotten apples and wonderful ripe and tasty navel oranges but atleast we are truly global with all of our Star partners...

 

[mweiss]

...it is a good idea to sell tickets between CASM and marginal cost in order to effectively price discriminate...

Not always. There is little question that the FFOCUS members posting here would pay more than they are. There is no question that at least one wouldn't leave US for WN at any price. So the net result of offering these low fares is lost revenue from the PineyBobs.

Is selling two $200 seats a better choice than selling one $400 seat and having an empty? Absolutely not. Not only is there the direct marginal cost of the extra passenger, but there is also a utility cost to the passenger in coach who would otherwise have sat next to an empty middle seat. It spirals out from there.

Preventing leakage of customers from one demographic to another is one of the more difficult tasks in the industry.

 

[longing4piedmont]

L4P...how is this post different from Class Envy?

[post="258398"][/post]​

Dunno I'm clairvoyant, not a mind reader.

KC, Have a great wekend. it's been fun playing with you. I'm out of here to go buy some lipstick. See ya later