FFOCUS Requests Input

[Singleflyer]

So to determine what $20K really means in your example, you need to provide what it is that money bought, that is, the average number of TOTAL miles flown by each member. Then we can look at the yield from the average member and compare it to LCC's seat-mile cost. If the yield is higher than the cost to the airline, the average member did indeed pay "a lot" for travel on LCC. If on the other hand the yield is lower than the cost to the airline, the average member effectively got something for free.
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Very good point.

I can't speak for all ffocus members but, in 2006 my average revenue per seat mile was $0.9125 (91 cents) that is the fare (no taxes) divided by the miles flown as listed in my stated for that flight.

So with approx $40,000 my company spent with US last year I flew approximately 44,000 miles. US cost per mile I beleive is 11 cents so they made 80 cents per mile or a toal of $35,000.00 from my $40,000.00 of a Gross Profit of 87.5%. I wish I had those margins when I was in retailing.

So I think I paid for the miles and the up-grades.

PS my grocery store gives some sort of cash back when buying a certian amout of groceries in a time period. Or a small turkey at thanksgiving.

Friday's has a reward program for frequent diners as well.

The list goes on, like the 11 oil change free for having 10 done at speady oil change

 

[BoeingBoy]

So I think I paid for the miles and the up-grades.

And that's before you consider the US affiliated credit card, which I presume most FF's have and use (at least to some extent). Or rent cars from affiliated rental companies. Or stay in affiliated hotels. Or purchase products from affiliated merchandisers.

All of those transactions that add miles to a FF's account also add $$ to US' revenue stream. It's not just miles flown vs dollars spent on tickets that determines whether a given FF'er is profitable for US.

Jim

 

[Bear96]

Very good point.

I can't speak for all ffocus members but, in 2006 my average revenue per seat mile was $0.9125 (91 cents) that is the fare (no taxes) divided by the miles flown as listed in my stated for that flight.

So with approx $40,000 my company spent with US last year I flew approximately 44,000 miles. US cost per mile I beleive is 11 cents so they made 80 cents per mile or a toal of $35,000.00 from my $40,000.00 of a Gross Profit of 87.5%.

Nearly a dollar per mile: Now THAT is a high-yield customer!

Out of curiosity, did you count your award trips in your mileage total? Also, to be totally accurate in determining cost to the airline, for someone who ends up in the F cabin a lot, those higher F costs should be accoutned for (I would imagine an airline's costs are higher for F passengers). However, I don't think those numbers are available. And even still, it sounds like you are one of the few who does indeed contribute a lot to LCC's bottom line.

PS my grocery store gives some sort of cash back when buying a certian amout of groceries in a time period.

What store is that? I might have to switch.

And that's before you consider the US affiliated credit card, which I presume most FF's have and use (at least to some extent). Or rent cars from affiliated rental companies. Or stay in affiliated hotels. Or purchase products from affiliated merchandisers.

All of those transactions that add miles to a FF's account also add $$ to US' revenue stream. . . .

That's true, but to be meaningful, you still have to look not just at the $ added to US' revenue stream, but the costs to US when people cash in their miles for an award ticket. (I am not doubting there is a profit, but just pointing out that looking at revenue only isn't getting the full picture; costs / liabilities created through those transactions must also be considered.)

 

[whlinder]

Awards redemption costs aren't already built into the CASM?

 

[Art at ISP]

Based on the non scientific data we have, and this is NOT guaranteed, I would say the MEAN RASM is between 40 and 50 cents a mile. Not shabby, considering that CASM is quoted at 13 cents or less.

About 60% of our members are Chairmans Preferred, and Gold or higher is about 85%. Of course with promotions and giveaways that figure is diluted, but it gives one an idea.

Also regarding total revenue spend with US Airways in 2006, almost 60% of the membership spent more than $10,000, with 32% above $20K. The average mean was around $18K, but again this is not scientific, and is being opened again for further response at some point soon.

Bear, again you miss the main point. We want them to do whatever they need to do to run a RELIABLE operation, and give their employees the tools to fix problems for customers--that is NOT happening today.

Could they survive if we all leave, yes they could, but we would make a difference.

The time for excuses and reasons is past. It's time for action NOW.

 

[BoeingBoy]

the costs to US when people cash in their miles for an award ticket.

Didn't you say in a post above that award tickets should be included in the calculation of revenue/mile that a FF provides? You can count the cost of award tickets or you can decrease revenue/mile by including them, but not both......

Jim

 

[Singleflyer]

Nearly a dollar per mile: Now THAT is a high-yield customer!

And its on trips like CMH-MHT alomost $700.00 one way with one leg on an RJ


Out of curiosity, did you count your award trips in your mileage total? Also, to be totally accurate in determining cost to the airline, for someone who ends up in the F cabin a lot, those higher F costs should be accoutned for (I would imagine an airline's costs are higher for F passengers). However, I don't think those numbers are available. And even still, it sounds like you are one of the few who does indeed contribute a lot to LCC's bottom line.

No rewards trip on US last year. And too bad I don't fly US any longer, its just too difficult to do business with them.


What store is that? I might have to switch.

Shaw's in the northeast.

 

[Bear96]

Bear, again you miss the main point. We want them to do whatever they need to do to run a RELIABLE operation, and give their employees the tools to fix problems for customers--that is NOT happening today.

I understand you "want" what you deem to be a reliable operation. But I fear it is you who is missing the main point, not me.

As long as sufficient numbers of people continue to pay high enough fares so that LCC can turn a profit (as seems to be the case at present), LCC will see no need to change. It will accept a certain level of unreliability, based on what passengers will accept. As long as LCC is able to turn a profit, it will conclude that at least enough passengers are "accepting" the current level of reliability.

You can post how angry you are on a message board all you want. But money is what really talks.

 

[US1YFARE]

But money is what really talks.

Yes, you are right. I haven't been flying as much on US as I did previously (only when I have to) and I typically purchased Y, B or A fares. I received a "targeted" promotion promising bonus preferred miles for flying Y or B fares for a 6-month period of time. They say the promotion was targeted. I'm not sure if that is just a bunch of BS and they sent it to everyone, or, they realize they are losing revenue from me.

 

[DrBeth]

Many frequent flyers are trying out other airlines and/or leaving. In addition to the promotion for bonus miles for Y and B fares, there is also a targeted promotion offering 25,000 bonus miles for booking in Envoy. So it appears US is trying to entice high revenue customers back.

But despite what one may think, most of us just want transporation we can count on. And based on all of the reports of irregularities, the QIK issues, and unhappy and frustrated employees (most of which I have read about on this forum!), the moving of customers efficiently from point A to point B is suffering.

 

[Art at ISP]

I understand you "want" what you deem to be a reliable operation. But I fear it is you who is missing the main point, not me.

As long as sufficient numbers of people continue to pay high enough fares so that LCC can turn a profit (as seems to be the case at present), LCC will see no need to change. It will accept a certain level of unreliability, based on what passengers will accept. As long as LCC is able to turn a profit, it will conclude that at least enough passengers are "accepting" the current level of reliability.

You can post how angry you are on a message board all you want. But money is what really talks.

Bear,

You are right. Money talks, and the signs are the money is beginning to walk. Slowly but growing -- people are fed up, and going elsewhere, and the other airlines are making offers to US FF's --talk about targeted promotions.

Trust me we know money talks, and we are planning quite a conversation !!

 

[JS]

Nearly a dollar per mile: Now THAT is a high-yield customer!

Out of curiosity, did you count your award trips in your mileage total? Also, to be totally accurate in determining cost to the airline, for someone who ends up in the F cabin a lot, those higher F costs should be accoutned for (I would imagine an airline's costs are higher for F passengers). However, I don't think those numbers are available. And even still, it sounds like you are one of the few who does indeed contribute a lot to LCC's bottom line.

Averages don't mean anything at such a low level (i.e., one passenger). They only having meaning in the aggregate.

If frequent flyers as a group were even cheaper than Ma & Pa Kettle (cheaper according to ticket price), the frequent flyer program would be out the window tomorrow. But that is not the case; even if some of them are cheaper, overall they are bigger spenders.

That's true, but to be meaningful, you still have to look not just at the $ added to US' revenue stream, but the costs to US when people cash in their miles for an award ticket. (I am not doubting there is a profit, but just pointing out that looking at revenue only isn't getting the full picture; costs / liabilities created through those transactions must also be considered.)

The marginal cost of transportation for flying someone on an award ticket is almost nothing (10 bucks or so). The "real" cost is the opportunity cost of giving away a seat to a FF rather than selling it to Ma & Pa Kettle, which is the job of yield management.

 

[whlinder]

FFOCUS wants to hear about operational irregularities you've experienced on US Airways. We are collecting anecdotal information to show US management and other concerned parties how unreliable transportation on US Airways has become. We ask you be as detailed as possible including dates and flight numbers. Feel free to include pictures if necessary.

My friend flew US BDL-DCA on Friday evening. His plane landed at 7p. There were storms in the DC area, and as a result he said the ramp was closed so the rampers couldn't unload his luggage off the plane for several hours. He didn't get his luggage until 11:30p. I don't know how long the storms kept the ramp closed (I don't remember it being that stormy on Wednesday that late into the evening but I live by IAD) but he wasn't happy. Not the most savvy flyer (I mean checking luggage DCA-BDL?) but his company is buying the tickets for midweek travel without a Sat. night stay, so he isn't bottom of the barrel either. Did say that he wishes he could take Southwest without having to get to BWI since you get a free ticket on them much faster. FWIW.

Don't know if FFOCCUS can ffind out how long the DCA ramp was closed on Wednesday, but 4.5 hours waiting for luggage sucks, and even if it is caused by weather the perception is the airline looked bad.

 

[US1YFARE]

but his company is buying the tickets for midweek travel without a Sat. night stay, so he isn't bottom of the barrel either.

Are there even anymore Sat. night restrictions? I thought all fares can be purchased one-way now?

Also, I know it is frustrating when there is an Amber Alert, but how can the airline be faulted for that? For $8.00/hour, would you want to be struck by lightning?

And as far as bags go, who cares how short the trip is, that shouldn't be a response to someone if the bags don't arrive or arrive late.

 

[Itestwell]

Not the most savvy flyer FWIW.

but 4.5 hours waiting for luggage sucks, and even if it is caused by weather

'Nuff said.