Fellings on the IAM contract
- Thread starter insp89
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N513AU
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- Aug 20, 2002
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I'm voting no. The IAM agreement is a joke. It would make our pay and benefits package among the worse in the United States. Five days vacation for someone 1-5 years! That is horses---. It's a matter of principle, people. If the judge "forces" me to take a cut and then I was the unwilling victim and, frankly, it will show in my productivity over the next seven years. I will, as a friend puts it, do little more than punch in and punch out. Or, as has been said, "You pretend to pay me, I pretend to work."
UAL777flyer
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Those of you that are contemplating voting "no", what are you going to do if the judge gives the company what it wants? You will have no recourse. Your union will, in effect, have been broken. You'll have lost all negotiating power. And the company can virtually select who they keep and who they don't.
What some of you aren't addressing is the issue of labor costs/productivity being the main reason US is in this situation to begin with. This problem should have been dealt with a decade ago. Instead, it was merely pushed out to the future as a quasi quid pro quo between Senior Mgmt and Union leadership. So for the judge to act in the best interests of the creditors and shareholders/investors, your costs MUST come down. Otherwise, you might as well begin liquidation because the business will fail. So think about that when you go to vote. The company is going to get what they want either the easy way or the hard way. The deal they have you voting on may indeed be the worst you've ever seen. But when you consider that the very fate of your company hangs in the balance, it's not that surprising. But you are taking a HUGE risk if you throw your fate into the hands of a bankruptcy judge. I hope it proves to have been a good decision. But my opinion is that it won't and you'll be sorry you didn't take what the company offered.
Again, I mean no disrespect towards you all. I sympathize with your situation. I've gone through 2 airline bankruptcies while at TWA and am now in line for another joyride at UA. Best of luck to all of you. But don't make a major life-altaring decision like this based on emotion.
What some of you aren't addressing is the issue of labor costs/productivity being the main reason US is in this situation to begin with. This problem should have been dealt with a decade ago. Instead, it was merely pushed out to the future as a quasi quid pro quo between Senior Mgmt and Union leadership. So for the judge to act in the best interests of the creditors and shareholders/investors, your costs MUST come down. Otherwise, you might as well begin liquidation because the business will fail. So think about that when you go to vote. The company is going to get what they want either the easy way or the hard way. The deal they have you voting on may indeed be the worst you've ever seen. But when you consider that the very fate of your company hangs in the balance, it's not that surprising. But you are taking a HUGE risk if you throw your fate into the hands of a bankruptcy judge. I hope it proves to have been a good decision. But my opinion is that it won't and you'll be sorry you didn't take what the company offered.
Again, I mean no disrespect towards you all. I sympathize with your situation. I've gone through 2 airline bankruptcies while at TWA and am now in line for another joyride at UA. Best of luck to all of you. But don't make a major life-altaring decision like this based on emotion.
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N513AU
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- Aug 20, 2002
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I do have recourse. I can be a pissed off, bitter employee who is simply buying time until I can find a job at a decent employer. Me working hard for what I'm making now is a better deal for the company than me being as unproductive as possible when they reduce my pay. The company WILL get what they pay for, I guaruntee that.
If they want to find out where the money went, don't come to me - look at Rakesh and Steve. They were the labor cost problem.
UAL777flyer
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- Aug 20, 2002
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That attitude sums up US Airways situation quite nicely!
repeet
Veteran
Part 3
Ok, You asked for it.
Answers to your questions.
Ask yourself what is the lesser of the two evils?
A) That is exactly what we have asked ourselves. Whether to discount ourselves and our craft. Or believe that we, and what we do, have an intrinsic value to society.
Let's not forget the reality of this situation.
Terrorists have killed our jobs, and successfully caused class warfare and infighting, just like they thought it would.
Ok, You asked for it.
Answers to your questions.
Ask yourself what is the lesser of the two evils?
A) That is exactly what we have asked ourselves. Whether to discount ourselves and our craft. Or believe that we, and what we do, have an intrinsic value to society.
Let's not forget the reality of this situation.
Terrorists have killed our jobs, and successfully caused class warfare and infighting, just like they thought it would.
repeet
Veteran
Part 2
Ok, your asked for it.
Answers to your questions.
It sounds like the IAM and the company were very close on the proposal that you are about to vote on.
A) I agree, I think they were within weeks of an agreement.
Q) Do you honestly think that you would do better in front of a bankruptcy judge?
A) At this point, absolutely. Being raped is one thing. Co-operating with the rapist is another. (Though some experts would recommend cooperation).
I am sure that if the IAM felt that they could fair better in court with a bankruptcy judge they would have never agreed to put this proposal to a vote.
A) The IAM as an internation industrial union will fair better with this proposal. We the represented would not!
Think long and hard about your vote.
A) We have. Pros and cons have been weighed and measured.
You are going to get profit sharing.
A) Oh gee, just what I always wanted; airline stock. And a bankrupt corrupt airline at that.
A seat on the BOD.
A) The Internatation Association Of Machinists and Aerospace Workers leadership will recieve a seat on the BOD. Just more influence for the self serving.
And best of all, most people will still remain employed.
A) We don't really believe so. This proposal or the judges impositions will result in the same corporate outcomes.
End of Part 2. See Part 3.
Ok, your asked for it.
Answers to your questions.
It sounds like the IAM and the company were very close on the proposal that you are about to vote on.
A) I agree, I think they were within weeks of an agreement.
Q) Do you honestly think that you would do better in front of a bankruptcy judge?
A) At this point, absolutely. Being raped is one thing. Co-operating with the rapist is another. (Though some experts would recommend cooperation).
I am sure that if the IAM felt that they could fair better in court with a bankruptcy judge they would have never agreed to put this proposal to a vote.
A) The IAM as an internation industrial union will fair better with this proposal. We the represented would not!
Think long and hard about your vote.
A) We have. Pros and cons have been weighed and measured.
You are going to get profit sharing.
A) Oh gee, just what I always wanted; airline stock. And a bankrupt corrupt airline at that.
A seat on the BOD.
A) The Internatation Association Of Machinists and Aerospace Workers leadership will recieve a seat on the BOD. Just more influence for the self serving.
And best of all, most people will still remain employed.
A) We don't really believe so. This proposal or the judges impositions will result in the same corporate outcomes.
End of Part 2. See Part 3.
repeet
Veteran
Ok, you asked for it!
Answers to your questions.
Q) What if the judge were to decide that wash up time before and after your shift was no longer necessary?
A) Ok, I can live with that.
Q) That paid lunches are a luxury?
A) They are. I can live without them.
Q) That double dipping with your pension and 401K company match are excessive?
A) In business you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
Q)That mechanics doing pushback is not needed?
A) The're not. It's just something our Union leadership seems to be obsessed with.
Q) That utility cleaning aircraft is expensive?
A) Only because the company agreed to pay them what the Union asked for. Overpay the unskilled and they become willing followers.
Q) That your hourly rate is industry standard for a substandard airline and lowered your wages?
A) It's already lower than the big four. Another few months of frozen wages will put us seventh or eight in the field. A court order is more bareable than discounting our own worth.
End of Part 1.
Answers to your questions.
Q) What if the judge were to decide that wash up time before and after your shift was no longer necessary?
A) Ok, I can live with that.
Q) That paid lunches are a luxury?
A) They are. I can live without them.
Q) That double dipping with your pension and 401K company match are excessive?
A) In business you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
Q)That mechanics doing pushback is not needed?
A) The're not. It's just something our Union leadership seems to be obsessed with.
Q) That utility cleaning aircraft is expensive?
A) Only because the company agreed to pay them what the Union asked for. Overpay the unskilled and they become willing followers.
Q) That your hourly rate is industry standard for a substandard airline and lowered your wages?
A) It's already lower than the big four. Another few months of frozen wages will put us seventh or eight in the field. A court order is more bareable than discounting our own worth.
End of Part 1.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #30
repeet, A great post ! The company is playing their usual doom & gloom cards, [a] Vote against this and the company will ask for deeper concessions. SO WHAT !....The judge decides. The judge will throw the contract out. HOGWASH ! Is that in the best interest of the company ? NO...... The company has thrown in numerous NEEDLESS concessions knowing full well that there are some out there that will vote for anything.. For example, "REVERSE RETRO" What a kick in the teeth !! Also, the company wants us to vote away two very sleazy class action grievances, FORCE MAJEURE & HMO.! The reason for this ? The company KNOWS they are wrong !! Let's hold their feet to the fire and make them address grievances thru the proper channels !!! Fellow mechanics, Please do not fall for the companies "DIVIDE & CONQUER" stragedy. Let's help the company,but they're asking too much.
