Fellings on the IAM contract

[pitguy]

Nice post insp89. It appears to me that the company is hitting us allot harder than other labor groups. I do not know why they are doing it. That reason alone is probably why this package is going to fail. It is like they want it to fail. Why else would they hit the mechanics so bad????? Why would they ask for more from us than other groups????? I thought it was the more you made the more you gave.

 

[pitmech]

To go into a little more detail on what the bankruptsy attorney said...

Several paths could occur.
1. Texas Pacific is not only investing $200 million dollars they also got the $500 million dollar financing from Credit Suisse and Bank America for us. The DIP financing is all a result of the Texas group. We vote no. Texas Pacific backs out of the deal because they want labor on board. US Airways runs out of money on August 30. The company liquidates, chapter 7. Not likely, but possible.
2. We vote no. The company presents what they just offered us to the judge including the contract expiration date of 12/31/08. He approves or denies it. Our present contract is then ammended to reflect those changes. When we come out of bankruptsy the ammended contract continues until the expiration date which is now 12/31/08.
3. The company asks for more than the proposal on the table. The judge again approves it or denies it.
4. The company requests the judge abrogate the contract. If the judge approves then the contract no longer exists. It was mentioned at this point that the bean counters don't care how they get to the magic number just that they get there. So with the contract gone they can farm out work because the scope is gone or are free to meet their target however they see fit. Again, this probably isn't likely with Dave being labor friendly, but it is possible. When we emerge from bankruptsy the mechanics who remain on the property are free to reorganize for union representation and negotiate a new contract from scratch. The old one is no longer ammendable because it doesn't exist.

 

[repeet]

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On 8/22/2002 12:05:53 AM

To go into a little more detail on what the bankruptsy attorney said...

Several paths could occur.
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Well this is the way I see it.

Possibility number one, is FUD.

Possibility two and three are the most likey.

Possibility number four, I don't believe, will be quite as dire as you make if out to be. Though your are right. The company could abandon all in house work. Seeing as putting your productivity into another company's hands, especially an oversees company, is soooooo desirable.

 

[pitmech]

Point number one got things pretty hot at the meeting. Frieberger had to stand up and get things calmed back down. Many people were questioning which side the economist and attorney were on because ultimately their fees will be paid by the company. My personal opinion is I'm glad the union hired them so we are on somewhat of a level playing field. I'm not sure how often they have to deal with FUD(fear,uncertainty,doubt) in their professional lives. An attorney would seem to be often, but I don't know. The company could play the same games with them in court and negotiations as they play with us. Negotiations in this industry are always a poker game and bluffing is part of it. It's hard to say the company is bluffing when we're in chapter 11 bankruptsy.

 

[repeet]

I too am glad that the Union is finally hiring professionals to help us with our negotiations. It has been needed for many years.

Though, in this particular case, I believe that they understand all who well who they work for.

They have been hired by, and are being paid by, people who work in an office that represents many companies. These bureaucrats have just been offered positions on one of the companys (US Airways) Board of Directors. The fact that the rest of the proposal isn't good for that company's membership is just an inconvenience.

 

[repeet]

Well, I attended the I.A.M. dog and pony show today in Charlotte. The Main speakers were the contracted consultants, a lawyer and an accountant.

I was sure that they would continue to spout the same old rhetoric that is posted on the Unions web site. Actually it turns out that they are the ones who wrote a lot of the content there.

They were obviously nervous and a bit jumpy. After about forty-five minutes in to the presentation, they admitted that they had been warned that we might be violent with them. Of course we weren't, and they started to loosen up.

Then a terrible thing happened. As they loosened up, they began to convey sincerity. I realized that they were telling the uncolored truth, and I started to believe them.

The conditions they described were ugly and frightening.

As they tell it, the creditors are impatient with the economy in general and the aviation industry specifically.

If any labor group votes no. Then they will insist on immediate chapter 7 liquidation.

I realized that this was not a scare tactic, or posturing. It was simply a lawyer’s assessment of how her case was going.

The bottom line is this. We are being asked to pay the company, for the right to work for less, and probably be laid off. Or vote no and there will be one less airline in the industry.

I hate that I believe them. But I do.

 

[RealityCheck]

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On 8/23/2002 5:33:04 PM

What is ultimately the best for the whole, is what is best for the one

Just curious as to the author of this sig line..IMO it seems it shd be entirely reversed to reflect what I always thought was realistic by experience.i.e.."what ultimately is the best for one is NOT the best for the whole."

 

[autofixer]

Anyone out there a qualified automobile transmission build/rebuild man/woman? I am going to need one and an R & R (remove and replace) man in a couple of months, at my shop. After your vote keep me in mind. [:devil:]

 

[sabre]

The IAM is now pulling out all stops in its campaign. The rampers are getting educated to the IAM's game, forcing the IAM to change its colors each day.

Now it is being said that if the ramp workers vote their contract down then Dave said he will liquidate this airline.

It is nonsensical and unthinkable to think such things...a ramper will bring this airline down? Get outa here!

 

[N513AU]

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On 8/22/2002 12:05:53 AM

To go into a little more detail on what the bankruptsy attorney said...

Several paths could occur.
1. Texas Pacific is not only investing $200 million dollars they also got the $500 million dollar financing from Credit Suisse and Bank America for us. The DIP financing is all a result of the Texas group. We vote no. Texas Pacific backs out of the deal because they want labor on board. US Airways runs out of money on August 30. The company liquidates, chapter 7. Not likely, but possible.
2. We vote no. The company presents what they just offered us to the judge including the contract expiration date of 12/31/08. He approves or denies it. Our present contract is then ammended to reflect those changes. When we come out of bankruptsy the ammended contract continues until the expiration date which is now 12/31/08.
3. The company asks for more than the proposal on the table. The judge again approves it or denies it.
4. The company requests the judge abrogate the contract. If the judge approves then the contract no longer exists. It was mentioned at this point that the bean counters don't care how they get to the magic number just that they get there. So with the contract gone they can farm out work because the scope is gone or are free to meet their target however they see fit. Again, this probably isn't likely with Dave being labor friendly, but it is possible. When we emerge from bankruptsy the mechanics who remain on the property are free to reorganize for union representation and negotiate a new contract from scratch. The old one is no longer ammendable because it doesn't exist.
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I'm voting no. This proposal takes me down to five days of vacation next year. This is unacceptable - even McDonalds gives employees two weeks of vacation. If they had left my vacation alone, I'd be willing to talk. However, they hit a nerve with me on that and really pissed in my cheerios.

Vacation is a no-concession item with me. I'd give up a money before that. When you have a crappy schedule, with midweek days off, you need vacation time to have any life outside of this company.

Unfortunately, the IAM thinks this is a good idea and leaves me with no choice but to vote no. I'm probably layoff bait anyway and I might as well try to punch a few more holes in the ship before I get tossed overboard to drown.
[:blackeye:]

 

[MarkMyWords]

repeet -

I am glad that you now have a true picture of the severity of the situation. I hope that all IAM members will attend these dog and pony shows and see that even the union agrees that the company is not bluffing. I realize that the concessions that are being asked of everyone are severe, but so is the situation that we find ourselves in. I applaude the IAM for putting on the dog and pony shows. And I applaude you for getting educated before you cast that vote. We are all definitly between a rock and a hard place here.

N513AU -

I have no idea what to say to you but to tell you to follow repeet's example of attending one of these meetings. It will be less costly for you to give up one weeks vacation then to be on vacation for the next year looking for a job. Your bitterness and hatred toward the company will do you or the company no good. Don't let your emotions influence how you vote. Get educated first. Sometimes short term pain will allow for long term gains.

 

[chipmunn]

Today in a Washington Post article titled "Buyout in the Rack of the Ruined" the newspaper said, "Under the terms of the (US Airways-Texas Pacific) agreement, after Sept. 23, US Airways is free to consider other offers. Luth thinks there will be others. "We expect that a number of parties will be in touch," said John E. Luth, president of the investment bank Seabury Securities LLC (US Airways restructuring consultant), "and it's likely a better offer will emerge."

"I'd be shocked if there weren't modifications," said Goldman Sachs airlines analyst Glenn D. Engel. "Things can change quickly. This is the airline industry, after all."

Chip comments: During last week's road shows Dave Siegel discussed the likelihood of offers for parts of the company that were unfriendly to labor. If a union votes down a contract, it's quit possible a liquidation of the company could occur where secured and unsecured creditors want their money now from asset sales due to management and labor not reaching accords. In addition, without the target givebacks the $900 million ATSB loan guarantee will not be available as emergence financing.

Chip

 

[mastermechanic]

I have worked for United and this industry too long to believe in "short term pain". There never is really any gain boys, but you have to decide what is best for yourselves. And guess what, if it all works out and the companies are saved, then the accalades for the top management will abound, profits will be had by all....except you of course. And when you pop up your little heads for a piece of the cheese, forget about it. Management will take there's in bonuses, pilots will take the rest. Then "something" will happen again and you will have to save the airline all over again. This is a fixed game, but then again, nobody forces us to play[🙂]

 

[N513AU]

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On 8/24/2002 6:37:15 PM

N513AU -

I have no idea what to say to you but to tell you to follow repeet's example of attending one of these meetings. It will be less costly for you to give up one weeks vacation then to be on vacation for the next year looking for a job. Your bitterness and hatred toward the company will do you or the company no good. Don't let your emotions influence how you vote. Get educated first. Sometimes short term pain will allow for long term gains.


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I probably won't have a job anyway. The IAM also sold out on the no-furlough clause, in case you missed that. We have a contract - pay up. If that closes the doors, so be it. We had a contract. Wolf and Gangwal had a contract and they got it, so it goes for us. If I knew my job was secure, I'd be a heck of a lot more optimistic, but with the fleet reduction numbers, I can see my number is up soon. 5+ years of quality service and this is my "thank you". I take that as a PERSONAL insult.

 

[UNC HUSKER]

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On 8/25/2002 12:35:51 AM

Hell!I've got uniforms with more time than that.Come ***** to us after you've been around the block a few more times.
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Great me too 18 years here don't think I will see twenty. Wish it was different but it is time to stand up against the machine.... Best of luck to all---->A NO VOTE HERE![:blackeye:]