FAA To Drop New Interpretation Of Mechanic Rest Rule

[Overspeed]

Overspeed you are so short sighted in a long career

CS'ing in your words is "a big deal"

So the TWU will "fight like hell" to save our CS'ing so we can work more to offset the lack of raises and increased costs.
Where was the "fight like helll" in negotiations?
Keep bragging about saving the CS'ing it only shows that we don't make enough money under the TWU ATD otherwise it would not be so important!
Many people use the CS'ing for second jobs and extra money that is something you can sell to the southwest mechanics.

Chuck SW mechanics do use a lot of CS'ing. Ask them. We got a guy who went there a few years back and he uses it commute. CS'ing is important but again you are locked in to one-dimensional thinking which is why you always get outplayed by management. It's not always about pay.

Want to be like SW in pay? Okay, then give AA the whole AMFA contract. That includes 4 lines of overhaul for 622 aircraft which we don't have anymore. So there goes TUL and TAESL.

Want to be like UA in pay? Okay, then give AA the whole IBT contract which includes no cap on outsourcing. The no RIF language is only if it is as a result of outsourcing. UA already outsourced the last of their airframe overhaul under AMFA's watch.

Want to be like CO in pay? Okay, then give AA the while IBT contract which includes no cap on outsourcing. They do no engines or components and only limited NB overhaul.

Again Chuck you lack critical thinking skills.

 

[Overspeed]

Wrong, pay includes things like Vacation, Holidays and even sick time, So even if our hourly wage was put in the middle our infereior compensation as far as vacation, Holidays and sick time knocks several dollars off our pay

Wrong. Pay is wages and premiums. Compensation is pay and all benefits.

Again, like I just posted to your homeboy Chuck. Want what they other guys got in pay and benefits in their contract? Then you got to look at the whole contract Bob. The fine print is always what gets you but like I told Chuck, you lack critical thinking skills.

The thread is about CS's and the ruling is a good thing for all AMTs.

 

[Tex-Mech]

The thread is about CS's and the ruling is a good thing for all AMTs.

Still not seeing how fighting for the ability to work up to 53 days in a row is a good thing. And if this was about protecting double shifts, then the ruling would of been about the number of hours one can work in a day, not the number of days one can work in a month. But since you are talking about protecting doubles, I take it that you are also good with 17 hours work in a day? And you are good with AMT's having to work doubles in order to get days off to work a second job elsewhere? What a union man you are. :blink:

 

[FWAAA]

I'm confused. The FAA issued an interpretation that required a rest period and one or more unions challenged it? Why is this a good thing? Now, admittedly I am not a mechanic, but it seems interpreting similiar to the 24 hours free from duty in any rolling 7 days like the crews have makes sense. WHy is it good that this was changed. I am not trying to pit one union against another, just wondering why this would be soemthing any union would challenge.

I'm not a mechanic either, but here's my guess:

Most people agree that it would be unsafe if pilots were not granted by law some mandatory rest periods and limits on the amount of flying they can do in a given day/month/year. If not for the legal limits, there would be a certain number of pilots who would disregard common sense and fly while fatigued so they could pile up even more money.

Apparently there is not unanimous agreement that mechanics should be similarly protected from their own self-greed. If days off for mechanics is an actual safety measure, then the law should mandate various rest periods just like it does for the pilots. But if it's not really a safety measure (and safety is not compromised by mechanics doubling up on shifts and working week after without any days off), then mechanics can negotiate for days off with their employer just like they negotiate everything else.

I'm not taking a position on who is right here or whether safety is or is not compromised, but it looks like those in favor of unbridled self-interest (or greed) convinced the FAA that over-worked mechanics don't diminish safety of the flying public. The FAA doesn't get involved in pay rates of mechanics, so why should it mandate how many hours they may work or how many days off they get each week/month?

 

[Kev3188]

Wrong, pay includes things like Vacation, Holidays and even sick time, So even if our hourly wage was put in the middle our infereior compensation as far as vacation, Holidays and sick time knocks several dollars off our pay

Wrong. Pay is wages and premiums. Compensation is pay and all benefits.

Again, like I just posted to your homeboy Chuck. Want what they other guys got in pay and benefits in their contract? Then you got to look at the whole contract Bob. The fine print is always what gets you but like I told Chuck, you lack critical thinking skills.

The thread is about CS's and the ruling is a good thing for all AMTs.

No, it's about how the TWU again has missed the overall point. Instead of "fighting like hell" for better total compensation for you guys, they colluded with the airline lobby to again devalue your labor.

If CS'ing is such an important issue, then it should've been in your CBA's a long time ago. If it is, and is inferior language, it should've been improved. I get that being able to trade can be a huge issue flexibility-wise. What I don't get is why the TWU think is okay with it now being a necessity to make up for years of crapping negotiating.

BTW, I don't speak for them, but I'm pretty sure that guys like Bob & Chuck *have* been looking at the whole contracts at other carriers for awhile.

You continue to defend the indefensible, and as I've said before, shine a bad light on all of organized labor.

 

[Overspeed]

Still not seeing how fighting for the ability to work up to 53 days in a row is a good thing. And if this was about protecting double shifts, then the ruling would of been about the number of hours one can work in a day, not the number of days one can work in a month. But since you are talking about protecting doubles, I take it that you are also good with 17 hours work in a day? And you are good with AMT's having to work doubles in order to get days off to work a second job elsewhere? What a union man you are. :blink:

Easy there Tex. AMTs have been utilizing CS and back to back CS long before we took a pay cut.

Many of us have worked 17 and more on FT's and you know that. Many people work doubles to cut down on the time at work or commuting issues. Nice spin to try to make me look bad but unfortunately you disregard the facts...again.

 

[Overspeed]

I'm not a mechanic either, but here's my guess:

Most people agree that it would be unsafe if pilots were not granted by law some mandatory rest periods and limits on the amount of flying they can do in a given day/month/year. If not for the legal limits, there would be a certain number of pilots who would disregard common sense and fly while fatigued so they could pile up even more money.

Apparently there is not unanimous agreement that mechanics should be similarly protected from their own self-greed. If days off for mechanics is an actual safety measure, then the law should mandate various rest periods just like it does for the pilots. But if it's not really a safety measure (and safety is not compromised by mechanics doubling up on shifts and working week after without any days off), then mechanics can negotiate for days off with their employer just like they negotiate everything else.

I'm not taking a position on who is right here or whether safety is or is not compromised, but it looks like those in favor of unbridled self-interest (or greed) convinced the FAA that over-worked mechanics don't diminish safety of the flying public. The FAA doesn't get involved in pay rates of mechanics, so why should it mandate how many hours they may work or how many days off they get each week/month?

It's not greed. It's people trying to reduce the number of total days at work and have more days off for whatever reason. Now what is the maximum number of hours on the clock that is healthy? There are a lot of studies on the issue of fatigue.

 

[Kev3188]

It's not greed. It's people trying to reduce the number of total days at work and have more days off for whatever reason.

That *should* be the ideal. And if that's all that was in play, for once I'd agree with you. What it has become is a *need* for people to pick up a ton of extra hours to make up for the continual slide in total compensation due to the TWU ATD's inability to "fight like hell."

 

[Overspeed]

AMFA got played? What would the TWU have done, given the same circumstances? Be honest. Remember, a yes vote gets 51% of the membership layed off - most of which were non A&Ps.

Regardless of the NWA/AMFA issue, Delle did more to advance A&Ps recognition/importance than all the other one size fits all communist unions like the TWU, IAM, or IBT. I have NO problem with Delle's retirement fund. Since you brought up union boss pay, How is it a fricken secretary at the TWU is pulling down over $100k per year? Why do the international posers continue to get annual raises when the people they represent are going backwards in pay and benefits? Jim Little and his mail order diploma pulling down over $250K per year? Really? Keep putting em on the ladies tee for me.

How is losing 80% of the M&R members you represent to outsourcing advancing A&P's recognition? It's not. Just look at the BLS stats. The majority of those who lost their jobs NEVER made the same wage again. Great job AMFA. The promise of a fat paycheck, even if it is somewhere else was a lie. Delle got a fat check and the 80% got unemployment. Again, watch Red Tails and then hear from real AMFA members and watch them pack U Hauls as they lost everything having their careers advanced by Delle.

Vortilon the air flow is separating and you are in a stall.

 

[Overspeed]

That *should* be the ideal. And if that's all that was in play, for once I'd agree with you. What it has become is a *need* for people to pick up a ton of extra hours to make up for the continual slide in total compensation due to the TWU ATD's inability to "fight like hell."

I agree. No one should work more than 8 hours a day to support their family reasonably. That is not because of the TWU. Look around, all unionized jobs have been hit hard with wage cuts.

It seems that people like you will blame the TWU for everything you believe is bad and claim AMFA did everything good. So AMFA losing 80% of their members jobs to outsourcing was good? Okay. Now I understand your rating system.

 

[Kev3188]

I agree. No one should work more than 8 hours a day to support their family reasonably. That is not because of the TWU. Look around, all unionized jobs have been hit hard with wage cuts.

That's a terrible rationalization.

It seems that people like you will blame the TWU for everything you believe is bad and claim AMFA did everything good. So AMFA losing 80% of their members jobs to outsourcing was good? Okay. Now I understand your rating system.

If that's your "understanding," then you're even more out of step than I thought.

 

[TWU informer]

I agree. No one should work more than 8 hours a day to support their family reasonably. That is not because of the TWU. Look around, all unionized jobs have been hit hard with wage cuts.

It seems that people like you will blame the TWU for everything you believe is bad and claim AMFA did everything good. So AMFA losing 80% of their members jobs to outsourcing was good? Okay. Now I understand your rating system.

In contrast, people like you bury your head in the sand about how bad the TWU, AFL-CIO, and all industrial unions have failed the Mechanic Profession. The "fair playing field" for overhaul maintenance political crap has been on the TWU agenda since at least 1984, when I too was a believer in the farce and the lies. I was a TWU Shop Steward in the early '80's and heard the same rhetoric I hear today. Yet, not a damn thing has changed except more job lost and outsourced. The TWU was nothing more than a piggy-back troll on this Mechanic Rest Rule issue. If those with the real Political Power wanted the rule to remain the same, then that would have been the direction. The TWU simply plays the lottery on political issues and they just happened to get lucky on this one. And then stooges like you show up here and in the public view desperately trying to get some credit for something positive, while your union sucks in every aspect of good representation. A large number of members are now seeing this truth and TWU's days are numbered.

 

[TWU informer]

duplicate post

 

[1AA]

What is the topic here?
Scroll to the top before posting, just a suggestion.

 

[Bob Owens]

Wrong. Pay is wages and premiums. Compensation is pay and all benefits.

The thread is about CS's and the ruling is a good thing for all AMTs.

Merrium and Wesbster dissaree with you and agree with me as far as what "Pay" is. .
http://www.merriam-w.../dictionary/pay

You claim allowing a company to schedule us to work way beyond seven days in a row without rest is a good thing, ok, your opinion. But we all know you are a company suck so its not supring you would feel that something that flies in the face of what the labor movement has fought for you support. Keep in mind that the language is not about CS's. If CS's were so important then how come your camp didnt support putting it in the contract and left it entirely up to the companys discretion?

Yes, guys have become dependant on CS's, because the TWU has failed to negotiate a pay rate that people can live off of,

I think anything that has the effect of making more hours available lessens the value of those hours. Its worked well for the pilots. You are minimizing the importance of our profession.

Just wondering, we can guess that the A4A was not concerned about our CS's, and you of course think its great that people have to work 7 days a week at straight time rates in order to get by, and the company can scedule us to work 10 days in a row at straight time, but what do you feel was the motive for the FAA and P&W for wanting to see a more restrictive interpretation, one that would move us in the direction the pilots have followed for decades?