FAA approves move by Atlanta-area airport opposed by Delta

[topDawg]

Justified entirely by the fact that it was in the economic best interests of the Company...

In reality, it was about 220 flights, and a lot of them on DL* instead of mainline metal, but there was still a huge impact... if I recall, over 2000 people were laid off from the express carriers alone, and that may have only been the local DFW impact. Not sure what the layoffs were in other locations which didn't keep service to ATL, MEM, or CVG.

DFW peaked at 353 daily flights in 93. (230 mainline) 
 
Leo and his band of fools, which i believe WT was in management at the time, then pulled mainline and it spiked again in 2003 at 260 flights but only 60 or so were mainline. June 2001 was the last time mainline was larger than DCI, 116 to 88 flights. 
 
 
Anyways, cool little break down on the DFW hub here.....
 
 
Anyways, Mainline had been cut a lot more so than ASA (the main DCI carrier). Dallas was the largest, not Atlanta, employee base in the system. You had the MX base (which did overhauls as well as c-checks) and the support shops to go with them, Delta completely dumped the ramp to DGS also. 
 

He's seems to forget this time frame all together.  18 to 24 year veterans were affected by this reduction at DFW you bring up.  Some of those veterans are now at SWA over at DAL LF.  But to quit Delta after 18-20 years and start over just speaks volumes.  Yes it was some folks decision to quit, but it was quit or get forced out of Dallas if they wanted to remain a Delta employee.  Some were told to go to ATL or quit, so they quit.  So sad to see these very, very long term employees being treated this way.
On a side note E, do you know the number of flights Delta is currently flying out of DFW? They are only at 5 (I believe) at DAL, but released that they were going to do as high as 18-20 afterW/A went away.  Once they were restricted to one gate instead of 2 gates on a temporary basis we have never heard any more on the original 18-20 flights they were gonna fly.  
Your 220 flts killed at DFW sounds correct to me.  I know for fact it was above 205 at one time but that was the last number that stuck in my head, but easily may have reached 220 as you say, all I know is it was a huge, huge reduction around the 04-05 time frame...

or the best, go to ATL to be an ASM and take a 30K a year pay cut. 
 
Had a few guys kill themselves over all of that stuff. Really bad deal. I know a few guys even today who live in Dallas and work in the hangar in Atlanta. Can't move cause their wives will leave them.... 
 
 
people like WT don't care about that though. Long as he can find a talking point who cares about those people..... 
 

guess what? US domestic routes aren't governed by IATA.

further, WN has no clue what IATA stands for.

uh....many of the DCI carriers including Comair had higher percentages of union representation than DL employees did.

and WN employees got absolutely nothing that DL employees didn't also get.

but since you and swamt are deep into the realms of stupidity, can we go back to the big picture one more time?

a couple someones made the claim that WN pioneered the concept of cutting markets for profitability and yet they want to hold DL accountable for closing DFW and yet want to gloss over the wholesale dismantling that WN did to FL.

and since you are talking about hub closures, AA's list of hub closures is pretty long, isn't it? I'm sure you'd love to draw a line just on the other side of when DL closed DFW but how about AA's closure of STL, RDU, SJC, BNA and US' list that is as long as your mother's grocery list.

but we don't count those, now do we? because if we did we couldn't use the argument that WN invented the concept of pulling out of markets for profitability nor would we have to admit that there were a huge number of employees in all of those closed non-DL hubs that were displaced and came nowhere close to being compensated for their inconvenience.

we wouldn't DARE admit that, now would we?

other than the much higher pay...........
 

Ok thx for that Kev. I did not know what it was. 
Another question.  How many mechanics are still at DFW?  If any at all, they may now very well be using contract maint at DFW with that few of flights now.

that would be a big fat 0. 
 
If it wasn't for NW the ramp would still be DGS also...... 

 

[blue collar]

other than the much higher pay...........
  

And a negotiated CBA, there is also value in that. Something that WT won't acknowledge.

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you want to say that WN gets higher salaries because of a CBA, then you also have to acknowledge that DL employees get higher salaries than their peers at several unionized carriers without having a union.

OR you have to accept that the way the business is run - DL and WN both run very good businesses - combined with their mutual belief that tying employee success to the success of the company is the reason why DL and WN - non-union and union alike - make more than their peers at other companies.

it is equally noteworthy that AA mgmt. has decided they DO NOT want to connect company performance with employee compensation which should tell you volumes about expectations for AA employees to give a hoot about their company compared to their peers at other companies

 

[Kev3188]

And a negotiated CBA, there is also value in that. Something that WT won't acknowledge.

Amen.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Kev,
will you acknowledge that there is value in DL's employee-employer strategy that not only keeps more jobs in more locations compared to your peers at other airlines but allows you as a FT top of scale employee to enjoy what you enjoy because DL recognizes that there are people who are willing to work for less than you?

and will you acknowledge that my prediction from six years ago about DL's ability to remain with its pre-merger labor status has proven to be accurate? doesn't mean it couldn't change but that DL has had a pretty good sense of what its employees want and has been able to provide it better than what other airlines can or will deliver.

 

[blue collar]

If you want to say that WN gets higher salaries because of a CBA, then you also have to acknowledge that DL employees get higher salaries than their peers at several unionized carriers without having a union.

OR you have to accept that the way the business is run - DL and WN both run very good businesses - combined with their mutual belief that tying employee success to the success of the company is the reason why DL and WN - non-union and union alike - make more than their peers at other companies.

it is equally noteworthy that AA mgmt. has decided they DO NOT want to connect company performance with employee compensation which should tell you volumes about expectations for AA employees to give a hoot about their company compared to their peers at other companies

You're reaching to add something into my statement that wasn't there. The only reason I clicked to read your statement was to see if you'd acknowledged that a CBA adds value. You didn't, I should've known. Back to not reading your drivel.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not any more willing to acknowledge that a CBA adds value unless you are also willing to acknowledge that a well-run company with a focus on engaged employees also adds value.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

DFW peaked at 353 daily flights in 93. (230 mainline) 
 
Leo and his band of fools, which i believe WT was in management at the time, then pulled mainline and it spiked again in 2003 at 260 flights but only 60 or so were mainline. June 2001 was the last time mainline was larger than DCI, 116 to 88 flights. 
 
 
Anyways, cool little break down on the DFW hub here.....
 
 
Anyways, Mainline had been cut a lot more so than ASA (the main DCI carrier). Dallas was the largest, not Atlanta, employee base in the system. You had the MX base (which did overhauls as well as c-checks) and the support shops to go with them, Delta completely dumped the ramp to DGS also. 
 

or the best, go to ATL to be an ASM and take a 30K a year pay cut. 
 
Had a few guys kill themselves over all of that stuff. Really bad deal. I know a few guys even today who live in Dallas and work in the hangar in Atlanta. Can't move cause their wives will leave them.... 
 
 
people like WT don't care about that though. Long as he can find a talking point who cares about those people..... 
 

other than the much higher pay...........
 

that would be a big fat 0. 
 
If it wasn't for NW the ramp would still be DGS also......

"and WN employees got absolutely nothing that DL employees didn't also get."

I see this quoted from WT.

That is a flat out lie.

All one has to do is look at the CBA for the AMFA and see that they have internal bumping prior to having to leave a station.

Delta does not have that. If they do, it is selective in nature and not subject to any contract.

If someone has a document showing any different, post it.

The AMFA CBA is easy found at the AMFA 11 website.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the point is about relocation and we have discussed it before.


DL employees have consistently said they do not want internal bumping... and if they thought it was worth it they would have voted in a union to get it.

Why should a handful of employees have the ability to affect multiple times more employees than were affected by a downsizing

why should someone who has worked their way into a small or medium-sized city constantly live in fear of being displaced by someone who worked in a city where the company could not succeed? they've paid the price of moving around and should be free to build their life in the community they have chosen with no fear or being pushed out.

With the DTW maintenance downsizing that just took place, DL opened several attractive cities - BNA, MSY, SAN, and HNL IIRC. why should one of those mechanics who managed to make a difficult situation acceptable to them - including moving their family - be subject to being bumped out by someone else who comes along later?

they quite frankly should not.

and on the couple of occasions when DL did large system wide restructuring of workforces, it essentially did this because so many people were affected - they did it with 7.5 in ACS and with Tech Ops.
no logical person would see that bumping someone out of an existing position is not a benefit on an ongoing basis for the larger group... it is a benefit that only a few will enjoy but at the cost of QOL - there you go - for far more people.

and the larger point is that with more locations, DL does not need to use such language near as often as other airlines have.

 

[robbedagain]

Why shld they have to uproot their families why does dl close crap left n right u truly are a pos u dont really care or give a dam that those folks being uprooted have lives messed up due to dl failure to keep mt base open

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL has closed less stations than any other airline, robbed.

the fact that you repeat drivel about which you are so incredibly wrong shows how little you truly know about the industry - but how quick you are to suck up to those who do something for you.

let's remember once again that 700 helped you with a grievance against US.

and DL people are not the least bit interested in allowing a person who has been displaced to create multiple bumps of people who have paid their own price to get into the station they want.

 

[robbedagain]

I do not suck up to anyone     I help folks and when I need it  theyre there to help     700 did one heck of a terrific job and I trust him just as I would if kev or dawg or q were at the same airline as me    u have no flippin clue whether or not current folks at dl are interested or not   learn to grasp that   as far as dl closing stations   theyre still doing it now and then   from time to time  

 

[topDawg]

DL employees have consistently said they do not want internal bumping... and if they thought it was worth it they would have voted in a union to get it.
 

huh? So again, simply because there is not a union that means me an Kev are the only people who have issues? 
 
Again, just because I want Delta doesn't to change doesn't mean I want a union. 
 

If you want to say that WN gets higher salaries because of a CBA, then you also have to acknowledge that DL employees get higher salaries than their peers at several unionized carriers without having a union.

okay.....I acknowledge that... 
 
You don't keep unions out by paying your people dirt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out champ. 

 

[topDawg]

With the DTW maintenance downsizing that just took place, DL opened several attractive cities - BNA, MSY, SAN, and HNL IIRC. why should one of those mechanics who managed to make a difficult situation acceptable to them - including moving their family - be subject to being bumped out by someone else who comes along later?
 

Few notes, 
 
MSY is attractive? ever been? 
 
second, Delta had opening in MSY, BNA, MCI for sure, however they also had openings in hard to fill stations like LGA, JFK, and LAX also. 
 
Delta's system is you get basically whatever you get. So AMTs who have been with DL(NW) for many moons got sent to LGA/JFK as wells as those "attractive cities". 
 
However, I also know of at least one ASM who got one of the AMT slots in MCI. 
 
 
Delta's system is jacked up. That ASM not only took at spot from an AMT in DTW, I also know of ASMs with higher time than the one who made AMT in MCI who all put in for a MCI slot and didn't get it. One got a spot in MSP, one is at LGA and one is still stuck in ATL. You call that fair, I call it horse poop. 
 
 
 
but its easy to talk about it when your a has been......... 

 

[eolesen]

Why should a handful of employees have the ability to affect multiple times more employees than were affected by a downsizing

Oh, I don't know... maybe it's because they made a commitment to work for the company long before those junior employees did?

Maybe it's because without their contributions to the airline's successes, the airline might not have been able to expand into to that medium or small city they eventually bump into?

I'm guessing you see all those downsized employees as just bricks in a backpack.

And that's exactly the crap that causes employees to unionize.

But hey, go off on a tangent about how successful the company, and how great profit sharing is. If the company can't show the same commitment to employees that they're expecting employees to show, then it won't ever truly be successful.