FA Deal

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/2/2003 7:40:13 AM TWAnr wrote:


In comparison to the flight attendants, the pilots did NOT give up the following items:

1.     They kept their full vacations.
2.     They kept their full, non-taxable, per diem pay.
3.     They will still be paid for the greater of scheduled or actual flying time.
4.     They kept crew meals.

In return for their concessions, the pilots received the following improvements:

1.     Unlimited vacation splits.
2.     Increased night pay.
3.     Unlimited recalls rights and passes for furloughed pilots.
4.     Better sick leave accrual.
5.     Better arbitration rules.
6.     More stock options.

John Ward and his cronies are the laughing stock of all other airline labor leaders.

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The pilots vacation is being set by hours not days. That will knock off time from what they used to get.

JW is the laughing stock? You must be in conference with all the other great union leaders. I have been so impressed with the people and leadership at IAM, and IBT. Want a laugh? Look there. Both are being run out of this industry for there total incompetence in representing members.

If we get through this and I keep my job, I will be the one laughing. All the way to the bank. May not be as much, but better than a lot of other people I know.

 

[FA Mikey]

All of our agreements run for 5 years anyways. Is one more year worse than having to revisit all this and see deeper cuts before a BK judge?

 

[FA Mikey]

Now, I know you are all in shock, but the following is what the company is seeking if this package is not ratified and the company declares bankrupcy:

no more duty rigs (E time, etc..)
no more average day (minimum 4:45)
1 hour of pay for 4 hours away(F Time)
schedule reserve f/a''s before make-up
cap vacation at 5 weeks
eliminate duty aloft within 13/15 hours on duty and no time restrictions
eliminate availability
sick pay rate would be 4 hours per day missed or 3 on reserve instead of pay for the
trip missed (your 20 hour 3 day would be paid at 12 hours as an example)
expand f/a cabin cleaning (all but over night terminations)
purser and language pay at $1.75
allow non APFA Latin American f/a to fly out of DFW and JFK
retirement of up to 100 a/c resulting in 1000''s more furloughs

As you can see, it is very sad. Many years of progress was just wiped away. But you can also see the alternative that our team was up against and I commend them for preserving what they did. There are a few things we gained that will be outlined later on the website such as unlimited PVDs, modest profit sharing and some stock options, but nothing that makes up for our sacrifice.
We will be back in DC Tuesday night and available to answer you questions in the coming days. Feel free to call us.
In unity,
Robert Valenta DCA chair

 

[MiAAmi]

I think a NO vote is what I'm leaning toward. 6 yrs is too long.

 

[FA Mikey]

One thing everyone forgets to mention, is that small as it is, we are getting a 1.5% raise each year. which brings back 6% of our pay. For those who are over pay step 15, and wont other wise be seeing an increase its something, better than nothing.

 

[NAPAUS]

Yes I agree we thought we had it bad at US...but lets not forget we are collectively in this together. No matter who we work for( OR previously worked for) the mgmt of all u.s. carriers operates the same way. I agree times are tough but WE MUST ensure than we they get better ..and yes they will...we need ASSURANCES ( side letters etc ) that we will be compensated for our sacrifices. Some of these cuts are unfortunately PERMANENT!!! We all need to accept that fact and move on..... as for DELTA they WILL be next..just wait and see..they HAVE no choice- oh wait...THEY did ... LOL and decided that mother DELTA would take care of them and they didnt need AFA...YEAH RIGHT!! Im thankful we all have unions to negotiate for us.Hang in there - ALL OF US...this too shall pass...Best of Luck AA...

 

[TWAnr]

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On 4/2/2003 11:24:38 AM FA Mikey wrote:

One thing everyone forgets to mention, is that small as it is, we are getting a 1.5% raise each year. which brings back 6% of our pay. For those who are over pay step 15, and wont other wise be seeing an increase its something, better than nothing.

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The biggest act of malfeasance, in negotiating this industry leading concessionary sellout, was not to have a snap back provision that will take effect when the state of the economy and the health of the industry improve, as they are bound to be sooner than six years from now.

The pilots, by the way, get a 6% snap back on May 1, 2004. Sure beats the flight attendants' paltry 1.5%.

 

[FA Mikey]

I would rather be getting a small increase each year, rather than waiting till AA has paid off the billions its lost over the last couple years. But that just me.

 

[TWAnr]

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On 4/2/2003 337 PM Connected1 wrote:

The 6% doesn''t look like a snap back to me. The pilots probably took a heavier cut in year 1 since the company needs relief now and didn''t want to wait until after the furlough training burden was over to get it.


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You can play with semantics as much as you wish. It sort of reminds me of the famous quote by our former president about what is the meaning of is.

Any which way that you want to say it, the pilots'' pay in the second year of the concessionary contract is 7.5% more than it is in the first year.

 

[TWAnr]

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On 4/2/2003 1:42:24 PM FA Mikey wrote:

I would rather be getting a small increase each year, rather than waiting till AA has paid off the billions its lost over the last couple years. But that just me.



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The pilots are getting the small yearly increase on top of the 6% snap back:

Here are the details from their contract:

--Pay cuts of 23% from current rates beginning May 1, 2003 for
the first year.

--Pay cuts of 17% from current rates for each year thereafter.

--1.5% annual pay raises beginning May 1, 2004.

Snap back provisions are generally designed to return to the status quo when the conditions which caused the give backs no longer exist. The CBA could easily have been structured to state that these modifications will be in duration for six years or until the economics conditions that required them have improved, whichever comes first.

This contract is a discriminatory product of an incompetent and negligent negotiating team.

 

[Connected1]

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On 4/2/2003 2:29:50 PM TWAnr wrote:
The pilots are getting the small yearly increase on top of the 6% snap back:

Here are the details from their contract:

--Pay cuts of 23% from current rates beginning May 1, 2003 for
the first year.

--Pay cuts of 17% from current rates for each year thereafter.

--1.5% annual pay raises beginning May 1, 2004.
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The 6% doesn''t look like a snap back to me. The pilots probably took a heavier cut in year 1 since the company needs relief now and didn''t want to wait until after the furlough training burden was over to get it.

 

[Connected1]

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On 4/2/2003 3:35:10 PM TWAnr wrote:

You can play with semantics as much as you wish.
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Semantics, in this case, is the difference between truth and spin.

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 4/2/2003 3:35:10 PM TWAnr wrote:

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On 4/2/2003 337 PM Connected1 wrote:

The 6% doesn''t look like a snap back to me.  The pilots probably took a heavier cut in year 1 since the company needs relief now and didn''t want to wait until after the furlough training burden was over to get it.


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You can play with semantics as much as you wish.  It sort of reminds me of the famous quote by our former president about what is the meaning of is.

Any which way that you want to say it, the pilots'' pay in the second year of the concessionary contract is 7.5% more than it is in the first year.

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Then dont you wish you were a pilot?

 

[TWAnr]

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On 4/2/2003 4:18:55 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Then dont you wish you were a pilot?

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That was not the point of my post and you know it. I was refuting a false claim by another poster that the pilots received improvements in some area in return for a larger pay cut. First of all, their first year pay cut is smaller than he claimed. Secondly, after the first year, their pay cut will be no worse than that of the flight attendants''.

At least their union had the decency of getting something for the furloughees, such as unlimited recall rights and passes, instead of taking away the furlough pay, which the company did not even ask for in the first place. This is the moral equivalent of stealing from widows and orphans.

It is OK, Mikey, you can be proud of this travesty. It says a lot about the kind of person you are.

 

[Us/Metro]

To all AA Flight Attendants
Well there is no dought about it if this is the T/A they are offering you its the worst one yet. We at U just finished with this whole mess. I''m sure some of you have been following what went on at U but I thought I could point out some of the finer points for you. As you know we voted on our first T/A and It was pretty bad but it passed. We were told If we voted for it that they would not come back to us for more and that we would probably not have to file for bk. Almost as soon as we signed they did infact file. A couple of months later the projected increase in travel didn''t happen so they came back for more(the rest really). Now we were in bk so they held a gun to our heads and said if you don''t pass the second T/A we will liquidate the company. So what other choice did we have(none)so it passed. I think that AA management has every intention of going into bk. Its the only way to get rid of all the excess aircraft and give your company some time to not pay any bills. All this time UA has been in BK they haven''t had to pay for anything that they owed before bk. I''m sure your management would love to do the same for a while. I know its a gamble but I think you will do better after bk. The judge will not throw out your contracts right away. To keep the DIP financers happy they will have to come back and work with you on a new T/A. Remember there is no guarentee that they will not come back for more once you sign on the dotted line. This T/A they are offering you is alot worse than the one we have here at U. We gave up about the same amt of pay and our duty rigs are worse than they were but we did not take as big a hit on vacation. I have 16 years and still have 29 days(down from 33)Max out vacation is still at 40 days for 25years (down from 44). Our vacation days (for a non option f/a 85 hrs per month) are paid at 4:03 per day. We do not claim trips missed. At 16 years my hr rate is $40.24 per hr (we do not have an incentive rate over 70 hrs)Our perdiem rates are $1.90 domestic and $2.10 international. We still have a part time program. F/A''s on the part time program have to work between 50/55 hrs per month, they do have changes to vacation and dental and medical bennies. A 16 year F/A gets 20 days vacation if they are on our 50/55hr option. We get 2 personal days per year( if you have an unexpected emergency you call crew sched and they will take you off your trip. You can do this 2 times per year with no question asked( they take the day from your next years vacation accrual)We have a new commuter policy. You must give yourself 2 flights to get to work. If both flights are delayed due to weather or mechanical problems you call crew sched and they will take you off your trip. You have to make the time up later in the month. They changed the drug test policy. The first positive drug test will not automatically result in termination. We no longer pay anything for our pass privilages for self/spouse/children/parents. We can also put a friend on our pass and they pay a tax formula for there ticket. We have 5 flying options 55/75/85/95/105 hrs per month. So thats a list of some of the good and some of the bad in our new contract. As you can see its a little better than what they are offering you. If you have any questions just ask and I will try to ans them. If you want a copy of our T/A I will try to get one for you. Take care and good luck to us all