FA Deal

[FA Mikey]

----------------
On 4/1/2003 2:12:22 PM Bear96 wrote:

Good Lord Mikey, what were you expecting? This seems worse than what UA wanted to do to us-- BEFORE we started negotiating!

----------------​

Believe me far worse in the work rules and quality of life. In the pay scale, Jan 01 three percent increase should be included in the 15 we are giving up. So the actual drop will be 12.6% taking us back to a scale 3% higher than what was listed for 01/01/01.

The Purser pay cut will lose alot of people. For that price who needs the headache''s and bid denials.

The worst thing I see at the moment is the benefit cuts for the OVL''s. It will mean far fewer takers. More layoffs.

 

[AAStew]

Kirkpatrick,
What website were you on? Thanks for the info.

 

[AAStew]

Hey Y''all....that 2391 is a very conservative count. I am on OLOA and I will be coming back to keep my benefits. I know I am not the only one, you can probably expect a huge number of us (800-900?) to be back six months sooner than expected. So I am guessing the furlough will be closer to 4000. I called the union and they said we will be given the option of returning. You know it sucks but honestly I was expecting worse.

 

[s80dude]

Hey graay f/a, at least your union dues saved your pension formula. They could have given that up and saved a chunk on the pay cuts and other concessions.

 

[kirkpatrick]

----------------
On 4/1/2003 649 PM s80dude wrote:

we will rebid vacations if this ta passes.

----------------​

I don''t know. I don''t see how vacation accrued last year under a valid contract and already bid could be changed. I''m hoping that part won''t hit us until next year.

MK

 

[graayf/a]

I am shocked and appalled with the "t/a". I know that the information out may not be true, but if it is this is nothing but garbage! If you go on jet net you will see the cuts that MGT in the 30,000-60,000 rage of base pay are taking only a 7% pay cut! Stll getting 6 weeks paid vacation! and getting 10 paid holidays a year! I hope that the negotiating "team" got a big kiss before they got f!$ked. I sure do! This is what my union dues go for!

 

[ArtTang]

more details as of 04/01 7:35 pm eastern
from the APFA:

SUMMARY OF APFA/AAL
RESTRUCTURING PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT

· Pay rates reduced by 15.6%, effective 5/1/03
*No 1/1/04 increase
*1.5% increase 5/1/05, 5/1/06, 5/1/07, 5/1/08

· Premium rates reduced 50% (purser, language, galley)

· Understaffing pay reduced 50%

· No holiday pay

· No narrowbody lead pay

· No longevity pay

· No reserve override

· No night pay

· EPT''s up to 12 hours unpaid versus current 8 hours unpaid

· Language pay applies to language speakers on language of
destination only

· Incentive pay for all hours in excess of 69 versus 67

· Per diem reduced to $1.50 Domestic/$1.75 International

· Reduction in uniform points from 18-12 (No carry over of
points)

· Vacation reduced by 33%
*Vacation allowance as follows:
1+ years = 9 days
5+ years = 14 days
12+ years = 19 days
20 + years = 23 days
25 + years = 28 days

· Elimination of the pre-vacation "48"

· Trip selection maximum increased to 77 Domestic/82 International

(Pure bids to 82 Domestic/87 International; Make-up to 85 Domestic/90
International)

· Layover rest minimums changed to FAA minimum


· Monthly guarantee reduced to 70 hours Domestic/International

· Flight attendants paid "actual" flying time versus greater
of actual/scheduled flying time on leg by leg basis, however, guarantee
to remain in tact

· Deadhead at 100% pay/50% credit versus 100% pay/credit

· Last trip of the month pay protection changed to last 5 days of
the month versus last 7 days

· Reassignment protection changed to last 5 days of the month
versus last 7 days

· Eliminate benefits for overage leaves
(Flight Attendants on overage leaves will continue to accrue
bidding seniority and be eligible for pass benefits)

· Eliminate furlough pay

· Reduce sick accrual to 3 hours per month; eliminate rapid
reaccrual

· Minimum annual threshold
(420 paid hours necessary to receive VC/SK accrual. Must maintain 420
hours in rolling 12 month look back period to receive medical/dental
benefits at full time employee rate)

· Eliminate crew meals (Domestic/International)

· Eliminate Part-Time flying

· Profit sharing of up to 15% of eligible pay if threshold met

· Stock options (Labor to receive 24.3% of total AMR outstanding
shares)
*APFA to receive 17.9% of 37,880,000 shares

· Company agrees to satellite base test

· Agreement becomes amendable 4/30/09

· Complete language will be posted as soon as it becomes
available

· Subject to ratification by the APFA membership

 

[s80dude]

we will rebid vacations if this ta passes.

 

[s80dude]

----------------
On 4/1/2003 6:35:02 PM kirkpatrick wrote:

----------------
On 4/1/2003 649 PM s80dude wrote:

we will rebid vacations if this ta passes.

----------------​

I don''t know. I don''t see how vacation accrued last year under a valid contract and already bid could be changed. I''m hoping that part won''t hit us until next year.

MK


----------------​

Mark, for your sake I hope we are right. I am just going by what I heard on the 4m. If anything, it will delay the potential overage and allow attrition to eat some of that up.

 

[endorfun]

As exemplified by the present situation, one should enter career-ending, life-altering negotiations affecting 10''s of thousands of employees and their families with their "ducks in a row" and not "their d**cks in their hands!"
Pathetic, simply pathetic.

 

[graayf/a]

Hey s80dude...I would rather have them chuck the piss ant pention, and let me take over my funds!

 

[FA Mikey]

When I see where my 401K is at It makes me happy to have a clearly defined pension benefit. I have that and social security to fall back on. My money, what I invest for the future is what will make retirement livable and comfortable.

 

[TWAnr]

[color=" black"]In comparison to the flight attendants, the pilots did NOT give up the following items:

1. They kept their full vacations.
2. They kept their full, non-taxable, per diem pay.
3. They will still be paid for the greater of scheduled or actual flying time.
4. They kept crew meals.

In return for their concessions, the pilots received the following improvements:

1. Unlimited vacation splits.
2. Increased night pay.
3. Unlimited recalls rights and passes for furloughed pilots.
4. Better sick leave accrual.
5. Better arbitration rules.
6. More stock options.

John Ward and his cronies are the laughing stock of all other airline labor leaders.[/color]

 

[Bear96]

So TWAnr, you are saying it would have been wiser for the F/As to take a 28% cut in hourly flight pay rates (like the pilots are taking) instead of the 15% one (in other words, nearly twice as much) in exchange for things like crew meals and per diem, etc.?

I''m sure APFA could have chosen a bigger pay cut in exchange for the other items, but don''t you think it is possible they just decided to minimize the pay cut instead?

Although, I do think eliminating furlough pay is kinda lame.

 

[TWAnr]

----------------
On 4/2/2003 7:54:16 AM Bear96 wrote:

I'm sure APFA could have chosen a bigger pay cut in exchange for the other items, but don't you think it is possible they just decided to minimize the pay cut instead?

Although, I do think eliminating furlough pay is kinda lame.

----------------​

With the massive return of those currently on OVL, due to loss of benefits, the furloughs will go much deeper than the St. Louis furlough fodder. Real nAAtives will be affected as well.

There were many no cost quality of life trade offs, such as more flexible trading with open time, that could have been gotten in exchange for the concessions without affecting the hourly pay. The pay cut, by the way, is substantially more than the 15% you are alluding to. What about the loss or cut of the premium pays, longevity pay, deadhead pay and the huge loss in vacation and sick time? When you total it out, the net affect is a lot closer to the pilots' 23% (the accurate figure) than you realize.

John Ward was too busy moving, so he did not have the time to properly prepare for the negotiations; he was soundly out maneuvered by the company.