F/a's Receive Company Counterproposal

[USA320Pilot]

SkyHigh:

There is no question this agreement will be difficult for mothers, with children and family committments. It's pretty clear this will be imposed if a TA is not obtained.

US Airways' problem is that the low cost airlines are hiring young women as F/A's without kids and paying them entry level wages with very little retirement/LTD costs and high productivity (little sick and vacation time).

I suspect the company would like to see all of us with many years of service resign and move on to something else, so we can be replaced by new hires.

There is nothing we can do about the past, only the future, which is where I believe our focus should be.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

The stipulation on the TEMPORARY outsourcing till 2/15 is that NO Mechanic and Related employee can be laid-off due to the outsourcing.

Second the good faith negotiations time period starts with the Section 1113c notice provided to the unions from the company. The IAM has been meeting with the company since Tuesday and still there today.

320, you are not an IAM member nor a representative of the IAM, you have no idea what is going on and what is happening.

The Company made the move to steal work from the IAM with the airbus issue which is going to cost the company $15 million which is a secured claim, the company's executives destroyed any working relationship with the IAM and its members, not the other way around.

Like I said you have no idea of what is transpiring, and I do.

By the way, the District 142 Web page was updated last night at 9PM with a new bulletin on the status of negotiations for the Mechanic and Related and the District 141 web page will be updated today as they Fleet Service had one meeting with the company yesterday and will be going into negotiations starting next tuesday.

Like I said you do not know what is going on at all!

 

[USAirBoyA330]

I just went over this proposal line by line and what a load of crap! Many things I can live with but many are beyond unreasonable. 21 days of vacation max after 40 years of service and at my seniority I would only get 7 days! Then to add insult to the whole mess they have the nerve to ask for a 15% W-2 cut on top of that. I am sorry but for everything they want in terms of work rules they have NO BASIS for a 15% W-2 slash. I might consider 8% with all the reduced vacation, sick, RSV...ect, but this just shows they are being BEYOND UNREASONABLE.
And don't even get me started on this RSV "BUCKET" system they want. Please, they need to let someone else tell them how to run RSV....they can't even staff this place correctly with the system they just put in place.
This $8,000 VSNR is nothing more than a bribe to the people that want out so they can get this shoved down our throat.
And 320Pilot-
It's not a "B" scale they wish to create...it's a "C" scale for INVOLS and NEW HIRES. I think asking those people that were furloughed to come back at that scale is just absurd! I might understrand NEW HIRES under a new scale but not our INVOL F/A's. They should be grandfathered in under the current rates.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Imamec,itsmyfault:

Your comments are the exact opposite of the ALPA advisors. As I have said, each union has the right to fight the S.1113© "imposition" in court. What you have to understand is that the court has only one option: accept the company or union proposal. There is no leeway.

For those who want to take it to the judge you were dealt a "painful" 21% pay cut and if it goes to a judge again, according to ALPA's advisors the cuts will be even deeper than could have been avoided because the judge has no option but to rule in favor of the Debtor and the creditor’s.

I believe it is best to limit the damage and hen if an employee cannot live under the new terms, at least they have a job while looking for a new job. It is better to have 79% pay and benefits while seeking a new position than just unemployment during the transition.

USAirBoyA330:

There is no question this proposal is a piece of crap, but it is a mirror image of the pilot contract. If it's not accepted by the MEC and the membership, the next proposal will be worse if ALPA negotiations are a barometer, and could be the basis for "imposition", which could begin late nect week.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

USA320PILOT;

Thank God ALPA doesn't speak for me! FEAR, FEAR, FEAR!!!!

I honestly cannot imagine living with the fear that you must deal with, how sad that is! It really does touch at my heart, to see anybody willing I suspect the same thing will occur to the CWA and IAM, via a consensual or imposed deal, which will be worse than if new labor accords were reached before Labor Day. It's sad to see what has happened, but union leadership was warned this would occur and now the rank-and-file members will have to pay for failed union leadership. to grovel so willingly. To quote from the movie American Beauty: "What a sad, sad man you are!"

On the plus side, I think you would make great management material in today's corporate world, as subservient yes men are just the key. Let me know how that works out for you. Oh right, you're going to kiss a@@ until the end, and then you'll be too frightened to pick yourself up out of the gutter you have created! What the hey, every city has it's share of low-lifes, and lets face it, you're a natural!

 

[USAirBoyA330]

320Pilot-

Granted your correct on it being "imposed." However, doesn't this just show that we are at the table trying to work something out and "negotiate" but, they just keep handing the same thing across the table. They would rather impose it or maybe just have us "pull the trigger" so it's less messy for them. They are not willing to sit down and listen to us and work something out. It's there way or NO WAY.

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

Well that stinks, my great reply got mixed with your crummy words??? Thanks USaviation!

Let it suufice to say that I think you're WAY off 320!

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

Here it is...

320, I honestly cannot imagine living with the fear that you must deal with, how sad that is! It really does touch at my heart, to see anybody willing to grovel so willingly. To quote from the movie American Beauty: "What a sad, sad man you are!"

On the plus side, I think you would make great management material in today's corporate world, as subservient yes men are just the key. Let me know how that works out for you. Oh right, you're going to kiss a@@ until the end, and then you'll be too frightened to pick yourself up out of the gutter you have created! What the hey, every city has it's share of low-lifes, and lets face it, you're a natural!

 

[PITbull]

What's interesting is that ALPA's RC4 seems to have influenced the company's AFA and other union proposals.

If ALPA had agreed to the company's August 22 proposal the concessions would have been less. Then company's pilot proposals kept getting worse, which the advisors predicted would occur. The September 6 company proposal to ALPA, which the RC4 blocked from membership ratification, would have been worse than the company's August 22 pilot proposal, but better than the newly ratified pilot agreement.

Now the flight attendant benchmark is the same as the new pilot contract, thus if the pilot's would have had a better deal it's logical the AFA would have too.

I suspect the same thing will occur to the CWA and IAM, via a consensual or imposed deal, which will be worse than if new labor accords were reached before Labor Day. It's sad to see what has happened, but union leadership was warned this would occur and now the rank-and-file members will have to pay for failed union leadership.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="197752"][/post]​

AFA thought that there we would have reached a T/A this week. The company just changed their minds again....

What this company wants is for the union membership to ratify an abrogation of their own agreement. Our contract isn't worth $100 million without the pension...

No USA320, you will have to pay for failed agreements. You and those folks who think like you, that selling your kids to terrorists is the right thing to do.

Kiss your seat good-bye.

We'll take it to the judge, and let him do it. Then we will be released to self help. We will join CWA and IAM.

This company will never turn a profit...morale is gone for the majority of the employees. There is no future here.

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

320,

Oh come on, you're not going to give up now are you? You, that are never short of words?

You must have some sort of come back!

Where's all that company BS you're famous for?

 

[USFlyer]

The company has to bargain in good faith, and they have not.

[post="197760"][/post]​

On the IAM's side, not bargaining whatsoever does not imply bargaining in good faith. That's a vacuous argument.

 

[Imamec.itsmyfault]

vacuous! WOW, what a big word!

Again, how do you bargin with someone not willing to do so?

I'll give 10 bucks; no, I want 15! OK, I'll give you 15; no, I want 20! Are you kidding, no, I want 25! Wait, screw you! There's your bargin!!!!

 

[700UW]

USFlyer,

You seem not to have read what I posted.

The Good Faith vs Bad Faith time period starts with the Section 1113c letter which was given to the union. The IAM has met with the company numerous times since the letter was issued and talks are taking place.

What has transpired before with no talks has no bearing on this issue.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

Imamec,itsmyfault..

Come on now..don't you know a320 walks on water. He plans to do it all..

Sell tickets, board psgr's, fix the planes, fly the planes, and take baggage claims....

He's an amazing guy.....Just the type CCY is looking for...

Oh and he'll work for free....

 

[PITbull]

On the IAM's side, not bargaining whatsoever does not imply bargaining in good faith. That's a vacuous argument.

[post="197820"][/post]​

USflyer,

IAM is already at the table. IAM is negotiating. You are wrong again.