F/A Furlough

[aamechntx]

NEWS FLASH!!!!! There is no TWA, Reno Air and Air Cal fodder. Were all AMR fodder now. No matter what your seniority is, adjusted or otherwise, it's a shame that these layoffs will occur about the same time that the PSP payouts happen.

 

[Hopeful]

Typical AA "Furlough First" mentality...

Unlike the 2003 concession hosing which was sold as the package to prevent layoffs.

We all know how that turned out.

 

[nbmcg01]

Everyone is so hung up on this loss of furlough pay..... Does anyone really know what the actual furlough was??? Knowing AA I'm sure it was very little....
I've been around long enough to know that anything from AA really never amounts to what you think it should be. Always a glitch ....

It was 2 months salary which at top pay is significant. Many of those recently recalled will face breaking leases, relocating their commuter apt. belongings back home and being without a job once again in their 50s and 60s. Much harder for reemployment not to mention another "hit" on retirement. So Maark767 the loss of furlough pay is a big deal. The amount was significant enough that it would have stopped the temporary "as need" style of employment.

 

[FWAAA]

The huge mistake by AA management was recalling as many FAs as it did.

It's sad that so many older workers accepted the recall even though they will now be hit with "breaking leases, relocating their commuter apt. belongings back home and being without a job once again in their 50s and 60s." That sort of punishment should be reserved for 20-22 year olds, not people in their 50s and 60s.

 

[nbmcg01]

The huge mistake by AA management was recalling as many FAs as it did.

It's sad that so many older workers accepted the recall even though they will now be hit with "breaking leases, relocating their commuter apt. belongings back home and being without a job once again in their 50s and 60s." That sort of punishment should be reserved for 20-22 year olds, not people in their 50s and 60s.

Gee, does that smack of age discrimination? Maybe you should listen to Capt. Sully's testimony.
My generation (unfortunately) loves this job and for the most part are very good at what they do. Many have not wanted to give up what they have worked hard to accomplish for the past 35+ years. I actually was hired by PanAm when they went in and recruited from the colleges and universities. I fought for the contractual changes that has allowed men an women to make a decent (depending on where you live) living, raise families, and enjoy some sort of retirement. I was a much better f/a @ 50-55 than I was @ 20-22. No contest. Granted I was much cuter @ 20-22 and could drink just about anyone under the table (thank you Hollins and W&L) but you would have much rather had me as your f/a in an emergency, whether it be illness, aggressive air rage, mechanical, or just plain old good customer service in my 50s.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

For California see:
CALIFORNIA CODES
LABOR CODE
SECTION 1400-1408

Only New York, Boston and Washington, D.C., based flight attendants are on the chopping block.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Plus about 38 in ORD.

MK

 

[UAL_TECH]

Only New York, Boston and Washington, D.C., based flight attendants are on the chopping block.

That's fine. Then these people need to research their state laws regarding the WARN ACT.
UAL was more than content to use the broad language of the Federal WARN ACT and put me out the door 14 days shy of my 55th Birthday. The State Labor Code is more specific in that they had to 'hand' me a WARN Notice with 'my name on it' 60 days prior to layoff, which they never did.

Just saying not to rely entirely on what the 'company' says and look it up yourself.

Good Luck
B) xUT

 

[youbetcha]

Only New York, Boston and Washington, D.C., based flight attendants are on the chopping block.

ORD will have some as well.

In response to NBMCG:

John Ward was President and at the table during the RPA. Laura Glading was brought back in off the line.

If you really want to continue this whole TWA victim thing, please remember that the purchase of TWA, assuming over $3 Billion in debt, was a catalyst for the whole Restructuring, which was $1.6 Billion per year. That number is just the DEBT not all the other vast expenses. Had AA pulled out of the purchase, as they could have and should have, maybe, just maybe all of us wouldn't have had to give up so much of our pay, vacations, work rules and, yes, furlough pay and jobs.
And, just maybe, the rest of the industry wouldn't have had such a fast race to the bottom after AA set the pace.

Once upon a time, I had empathy. Not so much anymore. With all the undermining, backstabbing, trash talking, threats, lawsuits, union busting, you name it, that threaten every AA FAs contracts, for now and the future, my empathy has been burned up. Oddly, so many of those at the forefront of all of this are either no longer FAS or, in their own words, don't need to fly.

A union is about saving jobs, yes. But, it is also about protecting the quality of the job as well. Our quality has suffered tremendously at the cost of trying to preserve jobs.

Do you honestly believe that if we had done a date of hire seniority or a slotting of some kind that it would have been right that the FAs who would have been furloughed would have been all AA FAs? It is not their fault that AA made a very bad decision in the purchase of TWA.

In your scenario it breaks down to: AA buys TWA. TWA gets full seniority at AA. TWA debt and costs brings AA (along with other factors, no doubt) to the brink of bankruptcy. Because the TWA seniority it SO high, it is all AA employees who lose their jobs but the TWA employees keep those jobs. And that is morally right?

That is just one way that "unions" get such a bad reputation.

 

[conniegirl]

ORD will have some as well.

In response to NBMCG:

John Ward was President and at the table during the RPA. Laura Glading was brought back in off the line.

If you really want to continue this whole TWA victim thing, please remember that the purchase of TWA, assuming over $3 Billion in debt, was a catalyst for the whole Restructuring, which was $1.6 Billion per year. That number is just the DEBT not all the other vast expenses. Had AA pulled out of the purchase, as they could have and should have, maybe, just maybe all of us wouldn't have had to give up so much of our pay, vacations, work rules and, yes, furlough pay and jobs.
And, just maybe, the rest of the industry wouldn't have had such a fast race to the bottom after AA set the pace.

Once upon a time, I had empathy. Not so much anymore. With all the undermining, backstabbing, trash talking, threats, lawsuits, union busting, you name it, that threaten every AA FAs contracts, for now and the future, my empathy has been burned up. Oddly, so many of those at the forefront of all of this are either no longer FAS or, in their own words, don't need to fly.

A union is about saving jobs, yes. But, it is also about protecting the quality of the job as well. Our quality has suffered tremendously at the cost of trying to preserve jobs.




"A union is about saving jobs, yes". And that is the crux of this matter. If APFA and it's flight attendants hadn't wanted to collect those many thousands of dollars of Union dues we paid as Union members, then perhaps you could walk away from this terribly tedious, and oh-so tiring subject. Sorry you're so fatigued....but then it's not your career on the line is it?

We paid to be members of YOUR Union. Get that? You insisted on it right from the start. We paid Monthly. Thousands and thousands of dues dollars, to be represented by the Union we were supporting with our dollars. So in regards to lawsuits, undermining, backstabbing (really....by whom?), trash talking (You bet....if you'd paid dues to be mis-represented or not represented you'd most likely be trash-talking also), and all the other items you list, your so-called Union owes the TWA flight attendants at least fairness and representation. Which hasn't been apparent up to this point.

If you're so tired of all of this, I'd suggest you catch up on your rest. There's a new possee in Washington...one that's just a tad disapproving of anti-Union behavior and y'all may have a day of reckoning yet.

Do you honestly believe that if we had done a date of hire seniority or a slotting of some kind that it would have been right that the FAs who would have been furloughed would have been all AA FAs? It is not their fault that AA made a very bad decision in the purchase of TWA.

In your scenario it breaks down to: AA buys TWA. TWA gets full seniority at AA. TWA debt and costs brings AA (along with other factors, no doubt) to the brink of bankruptcy. Because the TWA seniority it SO high, it is all AA employees who lose their jobs but the TWA employees keep those jobs. And that is morally right?

That is just one way that "unions" get such a bad reputation.

 

[nbmcg01]

ORD will have some as well.

In response to NBMCG:

John Ward was President and at the table during the RPA. Laura Glading was brought back in off the line.

If you really want to continue this whole TWA victim thing, please remember that the purchase of TWA, assuming over $3 Billion in debt, was a catalyst for the whole Restructuring, which was $1.6 Billion per year. That number is just the DEBT not all the other vast expenses. Had AA pulled out of the purchase, as they could have and should have, maybe, just maybe all of us wouldn't have had to give up so much of our pay, vacations, work rules and, yes, furlough pay and jobs.
And, just maybe, the rest of the industry wouldn't have had such a fast race to the bottom after AA set the pace.

Once upon a time, I had empathy. Not so much anymore. With all the undermining, backstabbing, trash talking, threats, lawsuits, union busting, you name it, that threaten every AA FAs contracts, for now and the future, my empathy has been burned up. Oddly, so many of those at the forefront of all of this are either no longer FAS or, in their own words, don't need to fly.

A union is about saving jobs, yes. But, it is also about protecting the quality of the job as well. Our quality has suffered tremendously at the cost of trying to preserve jobs.

Do you honestly believe that if we had done a date of hire seniority or a slotting of some kind that it would have been right that the FAs who would have been furloughed would have been all AA FAs? It is not their fault that AA made a very bad decision in the purchase of TWA.

In your scenario it breaks down to: AA buys TWA. TWA gets full seniority at AA. TWA debt and costs brings AA (along with other factors, no doubt) to the brink of bankruptcy. Because the TWA seniority it SO high, it is all AA employees who lose their jobs but the TWA employees keep those jobs. And that is morally right?

That is just one way that "unions" get such a bad reputation.

AA purchased the assets of TWA in 2001. Neither you nor I had any choice. They(AA) continued to hire and train after the purchase. Yes, I absolutely have a problem with those persons having more seniority. Laura Gladding was at the table, period. She makes no bones about it. Had I been negotiating the RPA every concession would have been contingient on a no furlough clause ESPECIALLY if some sort of slotting had been done. Now, you know that I never suggested DOH when we were acquired. But slotting not only would have been appropriate but would have also followed the provisions that every other labor union has followed including the APFA up to the acquisition of RENO. Believe me, none of us were thrilled with the acquisition (on both sides) but it did happen. It is a shame that LPPs were not kept in place to avoid this recall-furlough-recall merry go round.
I'm lucky in the respect that I have my $99 a month retirement, have a decent job, and can arm chair quarterback the potential for disaster of ongoing negotiations.
And whether you like it or agree with it, the primary purpose of a union is to preserve jobs. Quality of life contract enhancements are secondary. By the way, how are those working for you?

 

[jersey777]

ORD will have some as well.

In response to NBMCG:

John Ward was President and at the table during the RPA. Laura Glading was brought back in off the line.

If you really want to continue this whole TWA victim thing, please remember that the purchase of TWA, assuming over $3 Billion in debt, was a catalyst for the whole Restructuring, which was $1.6 Billion per year. That number is just the DEBT not all the other vast expenses. Had AA pulled out of the purchase, as they could have and should have, maybe, just maybe all of us wouldn't have had to give up so much of our pay, vacations, work rules and, yes, furlough pay and jobs.
And, just maybe, the rest of the industry wouldn't have had such a fast race to the bottom after AA set the pace.

Once upon a time, I had empathy. Not so much anymore. With all the undermining, backstabbing, trash talking, threats, lawsuits, union busting, you name it, that threaten every AA FAs contracts, for now and the future, my empathy has been burned up. Oddly, so many of those at the forefront of all of this are either no longer FAS or, in their own words, don't need to fly.

A union is about saving jobs, yes. But, it is also about protecting the quality of the job as well. Our quality has suffered tremendously at the cost of trying to preserve jobs.

Do you honestly believe that if we had done a date of hire seniority or a slotting of some kind that it would have been right that the FAs who would have been furloughed would have been all AA FAs? It is not their fault that AA made a very bad decision in the purchase of TWA.

In your scenario it breaks down to: AA buys TWA. TWA gets full seniority at AA. TWA debt and costs brings AA (along with other factors, no doubt) to the brink of bankruptcy. Because the TWA seniority it SO high, it is all AA employees who lose their jobs but the TWA employees keep those jobs. And that is morally right?

That is just one way that "unions" get such a bad reputation.

Well said. It is a shame that we a have someone on here that has taken it upon themselves to bitterly blame the APFA for everything going on with American Airlines. I have personally worked with dozens of former TWA flight attendants and can truly say that they are some of the most professional and likable flight attendants I have worked with and that not one has shared any bitterness about the ups and downs of their flying career over the past 25 years. Each one only wants what we all want and that is stability. I feel awful for them because they are good people. The ones on here that continue to spout negativity and divisiveness do not represent the people I have worked with.

 

[nbmcg01]

Well said. It is a shame that we a have someone on here that has taken it upon themselves to bitterly blame the APFA for everything going on with American Airlines. I have personally worked with dozens of former TWA flight attendants and can truly say that they are some of the most professional and likable flight attendants I have worked with and that not one has shared any bitterness about the ups and downs of their flying career over the past 25 years. Each one only wants what we all want and that is stability. I feel awful for them because they are good people. The ones on here that continue to spout negativity and divisiveness do not represent the people I have worked with.

This is not bitter. It is just fact. I think you would be taking a difference stance if you were subjected to furlough after furlough when by not giving away furlough pay would have most likely avoided the back and forth. I don't want to see anyone furloughed and unfortunately the union gets the heat because they failed to get safe guards with concessions. Once again, this is fact. And I would be just as vocal and vehement on behalf of ANY AA f/a.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

Plus about 38 in ORD.

MK

100-150 of the former TWA flight attendants should not be getting furlough letters this round. I thought that those in ORD were in the first groups recalled and less likely to be on the furlough list. What is the total number of former TWA flight attendants now based in ORD?

 

[BigBangTheory]

This is not bitter. It is just fact. I think you would be taking a difference stance if you were subjected to furlough after furlough when by not giving away furlough pay would have most likely avoided the back and forth. I don't want to see anyone furloughed and unfortunately the union gets the heat because they failed to get safe guards with concessions. Once again, this is fact. And I would be just as vocal and vehement on behalf of ANY AA f/a.

The funny thing is...

You're the only one who believes Laura Glading gave away furlough pay. John Ward was the APFA President in 2003 and was the lead negotiator at the TABLE! Regarding your safe guards with concessions... NO MORE CONCESSIONS!

Please get your facts correct before posting. Deleted by Moderator: Namecalling.