Delta recalling flight attendants out of seniority order

[DLFlyer31]

Your argument makes no biz sense and is what is wrong with unions today.

Exactly. Unions used to be about improving worker conditions and safety. However, they long ago lost that focus. Today, the unions are about protecting bloated and inefficient contracts. Not to mention protecting unskilled workers who are unwilling to acquire new skills or training.

Instead of hiring the people most qualified (i.e. people with the needed language skills), the unions would rather hire people with no qualifications. Instead of basing career advancement on skill, it's based solely on how long you've been around....even if you do your job poorly.

It's no surprise the unions are dying.

 

[aafsc]

Exactly. Unions used to be about improving worker conditions and safety. However, they long ago lost that focus. Today, the unions are about protecting bloated and inefficient contracts. Not to mention protecting unskilled workers who are unwilling to acquire new skills or training.

Instead of hiring the people most qualified (i.e. people with the needed language skills), the unions would rather hire people with no qualifications. Instead of basing career advancement on skill, it's based solely on how long you've been around....even if you do your job poorly.

It's no surprise the unions are dying.

"Protecting unskilled workers"? You are seriously behind the times. I work at AA on the ramp and we are at ( and sometimes below) market rate. For example, our contract starts new hires out at $8 and change an hour part time. AA had to raise it to $10 hr part time because no one would apply at the contractual rate. Fedex pays about $12 an hour to start. $10.22 an hour part time (20 hours a week) is the same as $5.11 an hour full time (40 hours a week). Plus they have to pay for benefits. Tell me, are these rates of pay "bloated union rates" as you say? At topped out ramper with 15 years at AA makes about 40,000 a year (no overtime or extra hours). That is nothing in places like NYC, LAX,DCA, BOS, etc. And in MIA you would not qualify for home ownership.

At US,UA,DL many rampers have left because their compensation has been decimated. I have seen this firsthand. Even at AA many have left and are leaving for the same reasons. How much lower do you expect people to work for? Do you suggest we bring back slavery? How about prison labor at the airports? They will have to because no one is willing to work in the elements for minimum wage. You want to pay bottom dollar, fine. Then you will get what they have at Alaskan Air. It sure seems strange that SW does well and pays their rampers $25 an hour and is fully unionized (TWU same as AA).

 

[Ch. 12]

OK, aafsc, let's not take DlFlyer's comments out-of-context and spin this into a totally different topic. If you review the entire thread (which isn't that long), you will note that at issue is that DL needs FAs that can speak the language of the many new international markets to which they are expanding. The entire premise...and the "skills" to whcih DLFlyer alludes...are language skills...and why should ANY company have to hire back 100's of unqualified (suppose that sounds better than "unskilled") personnel just to get one or two that have the skills (specific languages) that are necessary.

Please...there are enough threads about comparative pay rates...please leave this one discussing what it originally was discussing...contracts that make a company lose money b/c they don't take business sense into account. I will agree that many groups in the airlines don't make much $$ but again...that is being discussed everywhere else on these boards and quite frankly...it was refreshing to finally see a thread that talks about other parts of the contracts. Please don't ruin that. I understand the plight but that is being discussed elsewhere (EVERYWHERE ELSE).

 

[aislehopper]

I am not happy that we have people on furlough. However, in the long run, the success of these routes will allow other growth which should bring all of our furloughees back. If having destination critical LOD's (LOD is language of destination)on board helps us penetrate these markets, I do not have a problem recalling LOD's first, taking company transfers, and then hiring off the street for LOD flying.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I'm sorry...is there a point to this? Is this back to the argument that unions are immune to blame b/c if they get a bad contract...it is mgmt's fault...if they get a good contract...it is mgmt's fault? I don't care about signed contracts...I am speaking of what the union demands to be on the contract before it is signed. For a group to threaten work stoppage or other disruptions in order to add a seniority list (that IN THIS INSTANCE doesn't make business sense and would only add tremendous costs to the company resulting to future concession needs...though the union would NEVER tie the two together) is idiotic. Seniority lists are meant to protect in instances where mgmt would try to show favoritism in recalling. When expanding internationally and in need of people that can speak the languages in the markets to which you fly, it isn't "favoritism" to want to hire those that can actually serve the pax. Hopefully you and BOB can escape your programmed minds long enough to see this.

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Dude, take a friggin' "Chill Pill" !!

What ever NON union DL does to their F/A's, is OK with me, because they have chosen MAMY times over, to be NON UNION.


For the Unionized F/a's at other airlines, DO NOT FOR A SECOND, try to put a "SPIN" on this topic/my posts.

CONTRACTS are like dancing, "It takes two, to TANGO" !!

Nobody is puttin a "45" to managements "cranium" to "sign on the dotted line"

But once they do, well, "A deal is a deal" !

Like your mortgage(If you have one)

If you "put pen to paper", and agreed to pay the Bank, 6.00% for 30 years, DO NOT come crying to me, if they refuse to let you refinance(for whatever reason)

Back to Contracts.

Management, is free "to Suggest" to the Union, that they would like a potential new side letter(an Addendum if you will) to be placed into the Contract, via a vote put to the members! (Remember your Bank Loan officer) !!
BUT, if the members vote NO, or do NOT allow a vote, just simply go back home, and make sure your "check" is sent in on time" !!!!!!

It's NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[Ch. 12]

=========================================================

Dude, take a friggin' "Chill Pill" !!

What ever NON union DL does to their F/A's, is OK with me, because they have chosen MAMY times over, to be NON UNION.
For the Unionized F/a's at other airlines, DO NOT FOR A SECOND, try to put a "SPIN" on this topic/my posts.

CONTRACTS are like dancing, "It takes two, to TANGO" !!

Nobody is puttin a "45" to managements "cranium" to "sign on the dotted line"

But once they do, well, "A deal is a deal" !

Like your mortgage(If you have one)

If you "put pen to paper", and agreed to pay the Bank, 6.00% for 30 years, DO NOT come crying to me, if they refuse to let you refinance(for whatever reason)

Back to Contracts.

Management, is free "to Suggest" to the Union, that they would like a potential new side letter(an Addendum if you will) to be placed into the Contract, via a vote put to the members! (Remember your Bank Loan officer) !!
BUT, if the members vote NO, or do NOT allow a vote, just simply go back home, and make sure your "check" is sent in on time" !!!!!!

It's NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

Thanks for confirming the "mgmt is always at fault" stance. The best things about current union mentality (at least yours and a few others on these boards) is that members are impervious to blame. What a wonderful life that would be.

To your analogy...it isn't really relevant to the situation. Now it WOULD be more relevant if all borrowers were organized (let's just call it a "union" among borrowers). If all borrowers were aligned and I were aligned with them, when I went into the bank and they offered me 6.5%, I could counter with 2.5% and threaten that all other borrowers that are currently clients with the bank will stop paying their loans AND will retain their homes with no forecolsure if the lenders want to give me anything higher than 3.5%. Of course the lenders would probably counter at 4% b/c they would be out of business if all of their clients left them so we both sign the contract. The lenders were strong-armed into providing a rate that will ensure that they will lose money but hey...would you rather lose money or immedeiately lose the company? Now THAT is a better analogy. Now back to real life: I signed my mortgage but didn't have much leverage other than locking in my rate on day X rather than day Y. Signing a mortgage is kind of like take-it-or-leave-it. Even with today's competition, there still is not much of a difference in rates other than what your credit score qualifies you for. And credit score is determined by performance...not simply by how long you have been alive. Wouldn't that be something if seniority was based on performance and not the number of breaths you've taken since joining the company? I would give those with the proper LOD skills a higher "credit rating" than those that simply have aged more. LOD skills would get a better mortgage rate...IOW, one would actually have to work hard and acquire skills to get the low mortgage rate.

But then again...I guess that your analogy might be correct b/c you assimilated the bank to the union so yes...that is who controls the rates through threats.

And who is spinning? Maybe you should regroup and focus on the thread..."chill", perhaps, on the union tirades that are posted everywhere else. aislehopper hit the nail on the head for this topic.