Execs Dumping Stock

[KCFlyer]

Once again PitBull....these were stock options afforded to AWA Executives PRIOR to the merger and were converted to LCC stock at the same conversion rate as any other AWA stock holder. These Executives EARNED the right to cash in on these stock options. Who are you to say they can't or shouldn't do it, especially since these options expire.
Also.....The money from these stock sales came from whomever bought the stock in the open market - US Airways isn’t out the money

IT doesn't matter. US employees EARNED their pensions, which were summarily dumped. And...they should have cashed out when AWA was just plain old AWA - the move they made to merge with a bankrupt carrier is, IMHO, still questionable.

 

[PITbull]

Any executive will tell you that they can obtain an increase in total compensation outside the aviation industry. I know that the majority of the CCY executives took a salary reduction, especially during the BK process. Remember Pitbull, they took a salary reduction along with the front line employees. While their salaries were higher than labor, they made sacrifices too. Whether the awa execs earned them or not is another story. They were granted these options and have the right to exercise them. I personally have no problem with any executive being granted stock options.

You still only give one side of the story, similiar to when a large number of your f/a group decided not to show up for work during the holidays a few years back.

We'll then, you just called the DOT a bunch of liars, and their investigation bogus, Lime man.

And obviously AWA West believed you had no worth either,nor credibility cause they didn't offer you a job now did they?

Have you been hired by another company? Or, are you still living off your severance bonus...cause it sure was hefy.

I think the Execs received $8 million our of that $51

 

[PhxMama]

PitBull, No matter what you tell them they still dont get it. I am in full agreement with you and cant believe anyone would try to defend any of this major BS. I have said for so long that if the company succeeds everyone should have the same percentage profit sharing due to the fact their(managment) salaries are higher and they would receive a larger dollar amount. Everyone does their job or they wouldnt be employed with this company. If they wanted to give them some stock options, ok, but not this amount, and I believe they should not have been able to cash them in for at least 5-10 years. Let the whole merger shake out and really see if they did a good job, the least they could have done. Negotiations for every group should be fun to watch, they just put themselves in a corner and lets see what they try to do. Before they were given some leeway due to the industry but now all the good will has been trampled on. Watch your union leadership and if they buckle get rid of them, the employees from both sides of this company deserve better, much better.

 

[PITbull]

Phx,

I have to agree with you again.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Bob....

Very valid points and I agree. From the start of this thread, posters have made it sound like the Executives of this company were taking money out of the company. That the company was forking over millions in cash to the top exec's. Not true. I can sit here and say I want to sell my stock in Ford for 100.00 a share, but unless someone is willing to buy it at 100.00 a share it is pretty much toilet paper.

Many people rush to conclusions and get all up in arms at anything that happens. I completely understand given what we have all been through. But when you get some facts added to the mix, the picture changes significantly.

PitBull....

Executive stock options.....from the 1990's....for the America West Executives.....while working at America West.....is something completely different the negotiating a transition agreement. These guys earned their right to this stock. Did we make all AWA stock holders cash in their stock when we converted it to LCC? So why would you presume to make the Executives cash them in then? The idea of having stock is to make money from it. Be it you, me or Scott Kirby. It is called shareholder value. These Executives are SHAREHOLDERS and are chosing to exercise their option to sell before the options expire. If you were in a similar position, would you just let millions of dollars in stock options get flushed down the toilet? The merger could have been a total flop and the stock could be worthless right now. The stock market is always a gamble. Ask anyone that rode US stock form 80 dollars to worthless.

Lastly....I am not turning a blind eye to labor, I full recognize the sacrifices that have been made. I will also not deny anyone, executive or otherwise, what they were able to negotiate. Stock options are a part of the contract that the executives have with the company. Who are you to tell them that they can't exercise that option?

 

[PITbull]

PitBull....

These guys earned their right to this stock.

Lastly....I am not turning a blind eye to labor, I full recognize the sacrifices that have been made. I will also not deny anyone, executive or otherwise, what they were able to negotiate. Stock options are a part of the contract that the executives have with the company. Who are you to tell them that they can't exercise that option?

Geezus, didn't labor earn their "right" to their pensions???? Was that not part of our contract???? Labor didn't negotiate it away, they were wiped out by the BK courts from a motion that the company legal presented!

Labor were granted stock options as a return from concession #1, wiped out in 1 year through another BK. In consession #3, stock options were provided, ratified, in the contract, but again was taken away during BK 2

Public shareholders BUY THEIR STOCK; EXECS DON'T,they are granted.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Momma....

Once again you fail to recognize that these stock options ARE from the 1990's! Read the company Q & A from the About Us that I posted here. Those stock options expire. These were not stock options from 2005/2006.

While I agree that everyone should partake equally in profit sharing, this is not about sharing profits. This is a stock transaction! Pure and simple. This did not take one dime out of our company.

 

[PITbull]

Momma....

Once again you fail to recognize that these stock options ARE from the 1990's! Read the company Q & A from the About Us that I posted here. Those stock options expire. These were not stock options from 2005/2006.

While I agree that everyone should partake equally in profit sharing, this is not about sharing profits. This is a stock transaction! Pure and simple. This did not take one dime out of our company.

Mark,

Phx Mama gets what this is about, its you who fail to recognize that these guys made up their own rules ignoring labor's concerns on keeping OUR STOCK OPTIONS TOO.

Ask the execs WHERE ARE THE STOCK OPTIONS GRANTED TO LABOR THROUGH THEIR LATEST RATIFIED CONTRACTS? And why were'nt labor's stock options converted from old U to the New U? Why did only AWA stocks get converted to the New U?????

Waiting for this answer.....

Screw profit sharing, the targets are to unrealistic. The company has to profit $1 billion in order for the rest of labor to share in $25 million. Comes to about $800 per employee....that's S%^$

 

[MarkMyWords]

Was it Scott Kirby's fault that we lost our pensions? Was Amaerica West in Bankruptcy when these options were issued? Was there the threat of liquidation or section 1113 abrogation at America West at the time these stock options were issued.

If we were talking Steve Wolf or Dave Siegle getting stock options converted from US to LCC while all other stock holders were wiped out, then I am behind you 100%. Gimme a sign and we will picket the Tempe offices. But we are talking FORMER AWA EXECUTIVES, who had AWA stock options that were CONVERTED to LCC. This isn't stock they earned last year.

 

[PITbull]

Answer the question. Glass, and Crellin, Heminway got stock options granted from the new company. Please enlighten me on how Crellin received stock options in the new company????


Still waiting on the other answers above, don't want to overwhelm you.

 

[MarkMyWords]

OMG! How many times do I have to say this...

PHXMama - if I am reading her post correctly - is making the assumption that the exercise of these stock options are some sort of profit sharing plan. That is incorrect.

The Executives did not "make up their own rules". ALL AWA stock was converted to LCC stock in the "merger".

If you were so hell bent on getting stock options, then why didn't you negotiate that as a part of your contract. Why didn't you take your chances with the judge, if that issue was so important to you? Now that someone is profiting from the stock (which could have just as easily gone down) you have your hand out asking, Where's mine?

U's old stock became worthless in the bankrupty(s). No stock holder at U was given new stock in the LCC except for the unsecured creditors. Did Bruce Lakefield or Al Crellin get stock in LCC for the stock options they had in U? Not that I am aware of. AWA's stock had value when we merged....U's didn't!

Funny, I don't see Glass, Crellin or Heminway's name on the list of executives that cashed in stock options. They may have been issued stock options in the new LCC, but they are not the same options that were being cashed in by Kirby and his AWA buddies. READ IT AGAIN SLOWLY.....THE STOCK OPTIONS THEY EXERCISED WERE DUE TO EXPIRE. I have no idea when the options that the US gang RECENTLY got are due to expire and what the triggers are for them to exercise those options.

Each and every Executive at LCC has stock options as a part of their compensation package.....as do almost all executives of publicly held companies. So because Crellin, Glass and Heminway came from U, they shouldn't get any?

 

[X-U]

In regards to the comment that the money did not come from the company, that is false. The stock that was granted to the executives could have been sold by the company to the same folks who bought it from the execs, putting money into the company, not the pockets of the executives.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Did the company pay a single penny for the stock that was given to the exec's? No. The company also did not profit from it's sale either. Some people feel that the 4 million plus was paid by the company to Scott Kirby. No money came from the company checkbook.

 

[PhxMama]

NO, I realize they are not part of any profit sharing. I am beginning to think Mark is one of those who cashed in stock options and is trying to wrestle with his conscience. No point in continuing this discussion as its all over. Now what? Will they be able to look their employees in the face and whine about fuel prices? I dont care if the stock goes up or down at this point. For myself, I dont care if the company succeeds at this point. I do my job and if you think after this crap I will work their freaking OT, they can drop. This company does not put food on my table. They dont pay enough to have their employees go above and beyond and although many of us have, its for the customer and self pride but not for the company. I enjoy my job and my co workers but once again the company has shown what they give the royalty but not the paupers. I am so sick and tired of hearing LCC has one of the lowest paid management teams in the industry. How about including all of their compensation when those stats are thrown around, not just their salary. No matter how you want to slice it the employees will only receive the crumbs. I guess what we do has no bearing on how well the company succeeds. I guess the upside is that ALL US employees should be united against this slap in the face. No more east vs west but us vs them. Back to business as usual, so sad.

 

[PITbull]

OMG, skimmed over the damn question a-gain!

Lakefield and Crellin received new stock options in the NEW U, Labor did not even though we had the language for the stock options to receive.

What are you some dense board....the judge dumped over $2 billion in pensions, ruled on a hefty 21% immediate emergency pay cut (1113e) (3rd wage cut for labor).We already had the stock provisions, the investors said no, or no investment money. They wanted the lions shares of stock. So, our legal told us that the judge will move to make sure the company can emerge from bk, and we would lose that stock language no matter what.

The provisions in our ratified agreements of 2004 said that labor could have the choice of stock options or profit sharing once the company emerged from BK.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Once the company got the investors together, they would not allow those provisions for labor.

So, I will ask again for your source in management, WHY was labor not permitted stock accorrding to their concession amount to receive in stock options???

BTW, LABOR WAS CONSIDERED 'UNSECURED CREDITORS'; THAT'S WHY I WAS ON THE COMMITTEE, EVERY MEETING AND EVERY CONFERENCE CALL!!!!!! Labor, as UNSECURED CREDITORS got zip!

You should not attempt to debate which you know nothing about! Stop being the mouth piece for management. Let them come on here and debate it if they care enough on what is said.