Envoy

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Maybe AE should think about a new UNION, unless they think they can take a chance on the "they can do that brother" TWU.
 
Maybe Eagle will be the leader in ousting the TWU.
 
If the employees of AE were smart they would cut the throat of the TWU before the TWU got a chance to cut theirs with their under the table dealing and sellout tactics. Hopefully it is not too late.

 

[cynic]

I'm hearing DP is adamant about Legacy AE matching PSA rates. Apparently he's willing to crash AE into the mountain in order to get what he wants. Management appears to be blowing off any ramifications resulting from a massive disruption of feed.

It's a game of chicken with a huge economic impact to thousands of people directly and tens of thousands overall. I'm guessing that AE takes the deal as the lesser of the potential evils.

 

[eolesen]

They've already floated the "Comair II" balloon, and the latest aircraft order isn't fully allocated to any one carrier, so it's in the unions' court right now.

With FAR 117 now in full swing, and the new minimum hours requirement for hiring, it's a crapshoot as to who has more power here.

I doubt that AAL is bluffing where the Comair II card is concerned, but pilots with the 1500 hours and their ATP just might be better off saying "fine, shut us down... I can get work elsewhere" knowing that there are other airlines hiring and finding the candidates with enough hours is going to be a challenge across the board.

It's really not clear to me if the current leadership sees Eagle/Envoy as a bit of an albatross or an asset. Perhaps letting them die at the hands of the unions is the real goal?

 

[dash8roa]

The social compact that helped create the great American middle class of our parents is all but dead. Capitalism's understandable quest for efficiency has spawned two universes in american society. Those who struggle and those who don't have to. The strugglers are left to seek value that further compounds their struggle. Those who create value are the ultimate beneficiaries. If we transpose this on the airline industry in the post-consolidation era, the specter of a "virtual" airline emerges whereby all phases of the operation are out-sourced and the vendors are then left to compete among themselves for the out-sourced work. This general economic "un-winding" of sorts is well illustrated in a recent award-winning book by George Packer: http://www.amazon.com/The-Unwinding-Inner-History-America/dp/0374102414

Quote "Capitalism's understandable quest". Why is it understandable? Capitalism is the root cause for high oil prices, companies moving to third world countries for cheap labor, the outsourcing of jobs for avoiding the paying of benefits and poverty wages, companies moving from the north to the south where wages and benefits are traditionally low. Look where airbus is setting up the A320 final assembly line, Alabama, look where Boeing set up the 787 line, South Carolina, BMW, Mercedes and others head for the cheap labor states, all this for the shareholder.
Hang on because its only going to get worse. An economist said last year, whats going on in Europe will be here in about two years.
Even with the lowest interest rates in history, the economy still struggles and the future looks bleak. The new normal is here and thinking about the good old days is a waste of time.

 

[RJcasualty]

They've already floated the "Comair II" balloon, and the latest aircraft order isn't fully allocated to any one carrier, so it's in the unions' court right now.

With FAR 117 now in full swing, and the new minimum hours requirement for hiring, it's a crapshoot as to who has more power here.

I doubt that AAL is bluffing where the Comair II card is concerned, but pilots with the 1500 hours and their ATP just might be better off saying "fine, shut us down... I can get work elsewhere" knowing that there are other airlines hiring and finding the candidates with enough hours is going to be a challenge across the board.

It's really not clear to me if the current leadership sees Eagle/Envoy as a bit of an albatross or an asset. Perhaps letting them die at the hands of the unions is the real goal?

The "Shrinking Envoy" rollout will occur no matter what the pilots do, although management would obviously prefer some pilots amongst the cakes, confetti, balloons and backslapping. It's all a fraud, although you have to give DP and PF credit for being so brazen. Do they not fear being laughed off the stage? 

 

[MCI transplant]

The social compact that helped create the great American middle class of our parents is all but dead. Capitalism's understandable quest for efficiency has spawned two universes in american society. Those who struggle and those who don't have to. The strugglers are left to seek value that further compounds their struggle. Those who create value are the ultimate beneficiaries. If we transpose this on the airline industry in the post-consolidation era, the specter of a "virtual" airline emerges whereby all phases of the operation are out-sourced and the vendors are then left to compete among themselves for the out-sourced work. This general economic "un-winding" of sorts is well illustrated in a recent award-winning book by George Packer: http://www.amazon.com/The-Unwinding-Inner-History-America/dp/0374102414

RJ----- That avatar of yours, is that a take off of a member of the German WWII  National Socialist Party, Brown Shirts?-------  Even that quote at the bottom is a take off of what is written on the enterance to an infamous concentration camp? ------ " Work will set you free!" And your lecuring us on the evils of Capitalism?

 

[MCI transplant]

Oh! Now I get it! ----- Bush! "W" ------- Cute!                              


[SIZE=14pt]perspective.[/SIZE]




 




[SIZE=14pt]"During the 3-1/2 years of World War 2 that started with the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941 and ended with the Surrender of Germany and Japan in 1945, the U.S. produced; 22 aircraft carriers, 8 battleships, 48 cruisers, 349 destroyers, 420 destroyer escorts, 203 submarines, 34 million tons of merchant ships, 100,000 fighter aircraft, 98,000 bombers, 24,000 transport aircraft, 58,000 training aircraft, 93,000 tanks, 257,000 artillery pieces, 105,000 mortars, 3,000,000 machine guns, and 2,500,000 military trucks.[/SIZE]




 




[SIZE=14pt]We put 16.1 million men in uniform in the various armed services, invaded Africa, invaded Sicily and Italy, won the battle for the Atlantic, planned and executed D-Day, marched across the Pacific and Europe, developed the atomic bomb and ultimately conquered Japan and Germany.[/SIZE]




 




[SIZE=16pt]It's worth noting, that during the almost exact amount of time, the Obama administration couldn't build a functioning web site.[/SIZE]

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

What do the last two posts have to do with AA or envoy?

 

[MCI transplant]

What do the last two posts have to do with AA or envoy?

What does a lecture on the evils of Capitalism have to do with AA, or envoy?

 

[RJcasualty]

Our friends at mainline should pause and take notice of the tactics being employed by the Tempe crowd to extract additional concessions on top of previous concessions at AE. If the AAL business plan doesn't bear the promised fruit in the allotted time, they will come after you.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Even that quote at the bottom is a take off of what is written on the enterance to an infamous concentration camp? ------ " Work will set you free!" And your lecuring us on the evils of Capitalism?

 
How about you try to stay on topic, and take your BS political opinions over to the water cooler?

 

[MCI transplant]

 
How about you try to stay on topic, and take your BS political opinions over to the water cooler?

Hey, I'll do that, if you all will do the same!!!!

 

[RJcasualty]

What does a lecture on the evils of Capitalism have to do with AA, or envoy?

The airline worker community is a middle class bastion in this economy . Envoy will be a creature of management's tactic of pitting worker against worker within that community in order to further the ends of the corporation, ostensibly to remain "competitive" . The resultant wage/benefit degradation will push the worker up to and in some cases outside of what is considered middle class. As the tactic succeeds at the subsidiary, competitive pressures within the mainline sector and flaws within the AAL business plan could embolden management to revisit the promises made to mainline workers as sweeteners for the merger.  

 

[B727guy]

How can American Eagle wages go any lower?  When I was there in the mid to late '90s, the starting wage for station agents was $5 an hour (minimum wage at the time).  McDonald's in my city was starting at $7 at the time.  The top out rate for agents was $12 an hour.  The lead agent premium was $1 an hour over the agent's current rate.   
 
I flew to LHR with a parent and had two months of paychecks with "VOID" printed on them, because the service charge far exceeded my earnings.
 
The agent group at American Eagle was non-union at the time.  I believe they still are.

 

[RJcasualty]

How can American Eagle wages go any lower?  When I was there in the mid to late '90s, the starting wage for station agents was $5 an hour (minimum wage at the time).  McDonald's in my city was starting at $7 at the time.  The top out rate for agents was $12 an hour.  The lead agent premium was $1 an hour over the agent's current rate.   
 
I flew to LHR with a parent and had two months of paychecks with "VOID" printed on them, because the service charge far exceeded my earnings.
 
The agent group at American Eagle was non-union at the time.  I believe they still are.

Front line ground personnel rates haven't kept up with cost of living. Most positions are part-time and devoid of full-time benefits. Considering the day-to-day stresses involving customers, management and even flight crews, it's a wonder why one would ever choose the position. My hat goes off to them and I do as much as I can to help them out.