Enough is enough! All systems red!

[Bear96]

Bear. I've had a few 'real' jobs. I was not as worked as I am now.
Maybe when you were a flight attendant the flights were overstaffed and the workload wasn't as much. Mabye you were lucky enough to fly only sweet trips with short duty days.

This industry has undergone a tremendous change since 9/11. The work load, and duty day, has significantly increased. Just because you were a flight attendant once doesn't give you leave to state with any kind of certainty what kind of workload Jim, I, or any other CURRENT flight attendant bears.

I worked plenty of flights as a F/A in bankruptcy, post-concessions, post-9/11, at FAA minimum staffing, with long duty days, during irregular operations, etc. etc. I know plenty of F/As now. I don't know why you are denying the obvious so vehemently. The job still gives much more time off and free time at home than almost any other full time job I can think of.

Are you really suggesting that isn't true? If so, what job regularly offers more time off, except maybe teacher during summer vacation?

 

[FWAAA]

Whenever passengers ask why the FAs don't check any of their bags and instead fill up the onboard overhead bins, the FAs typically respond that they have far too many tight connections to ever think of checking a bag.

But when the subject changes to FAs' duty days and scheduling, all of a sudden, every FA has a 3-5 hour sit between flights because of the terribly inefficient schedules that are completely within management's province.

 

[boston]

Whenever passengers ask why the FAs don't check any of their bags and instead fill up the onboard overhead bins, the FAs typically respond that they have far too many tight connections to ever think of checking a bag.

But when the subject changes to FAs' duty days and scheduling, all of a sudden, every FA has a 3-5 hour sit between flights because of the terribly inefficient schedules that are completely within management's province.

I'ts silly isn't it. Why there's so much facsination with our work group. Kinda like, everyone hates to fly, but all they do is talk about there experiance at party's,in the grocery store, at church and that CNN quy compleatly agrivated that he may have to pay to bring on a carry on, he said he takes 9 pairs of jeans for a weekend.

What would people talk about.

 

[nbmcg01]

Whenever passengers ask why the FAs don't check any of their bags and instead fill up the onboard overhead bins, the FAs typically respond that they have far too many tight connections to ever think of checking a bag.

But when the subject changes to FAs' duty days and scheduling, all of a sudden, every FA has a 3-5 hour sit between flights because of the terribly inefficient schedules that are completely within management's province.

This comment is a prime example of "perceptions". Both issues are equally true.
Would you seriously expect the f/as to go to baggage claim between flight segments and have to clear security after each leg? There are designated crew bag spots (not unlike the original issue of crew rest seats). Perhaps everyone would be happier if crew kits were not needed or allowed, and "all" of that space was yours and yours alone. F/as do not go on the ramp so don't even suggest that they go down and grab their bags from the belly.

As for practice layovers, there are WAY too many at AA. If there was a pay penalty, you would see them disappear.

 

[Veritas]

This comment is a prime example of "perceptions". Both issues are equally true.
Would you seriously expect the f/as to go to baggage claim between flight segments and have to clear security after each leg? There are designated crew bag spots (not unlike the original issue of crew rest seats). Perhaps everyone would be happier if crew kits were not needed or allowed, and "all" of that space was yours and yours alone. F/as do not go on the ramp so don't even suggest that they go down and grab their bags from the belly.

As for practice layovers, there are WAY too many at AA. If there was a pay penalty, you would see them disappear.

Overpriced lawyers with way too much free time on their hands (5,115 posts here and 20,784 on FlyerTalk) know everything better than anyone.

 

[Skymess]

I worked plenty of flights as a F/A in bankruptcy, post-concessions, post-9/11, at FAA minimum staffing, with long duty days, during irregular operations, etc. etc. I know plenty of F/As now. I don't know why you are denying the obvious so vehemently. The job still gives much more time off and free time at home than almost any other full time job I can think of.

Are you really suggesting that isn't true? If so, what job regularly offers more time off, except maybe teacher during summer vacation?

Oh. You're the expert. You know best then. You're right.

It's always amusing when former airline people who left to choose a supposedly better career have to come back and troll the airline boards and tell the people who still work for airlines how it is as though time stands still and their past experience makes them the sage.

 

[nbmcg01]

Oh. You're the expert. You know best then. You're right.

It's always amusing when former airline people who left to choose a supposedly better career have to come back and troll the airline boards and tell the people who still work for airlines how it is as though time stands still and their past experience makes them the sage.

Oh I don't know about that Chris. I have somewhere in the range of 15,000,000 miles as a f/a. I think that gives me license to chime in...

 

[eolesen]

Oh I don't know about that Chris. I have somewhere in the range of 15,000,000 miles as a f/a. I think that gives me license to chime in...

Indeed. Being on the outside doesn't mean you forget all that you knew before.....

 

[Bear96]

Oh. You're the expert. You know best then. You're right.

It's always amusing when former airline people who left to choose a supposedly better career have to come back and troll the airline boards and tell the people who still work for airlines how it is as though time stands still and their past experience makes them the sage.

You're right. If you do a job for many years, you have no idea what it is like to do that job. And the minute you quit or retire, you instantly lose all knowledge of it like it never happened.

Oh, and did I miss where you listed all those jobs that give more time off? Funny how you deflect and try to change the subject into me instead of discussing the issue.

 

[nbmcg01]

You're right. If you do a job for many years, you have no idea what it is like to do that job. And the minute you quit or retire, you instantly lose all knowledge of it like it never happened.

Oh, and did I miss where you listed all those jobs that give more time off? Funny how you deflect and try to change the subject into me instead of discussing the issue.

Comparing a f/as job to "real world" is impossible. It is apples and oranges, both fruits but totally different. Each skill set has its advantages and disadvantages. What I appreciated most about flying was the ability to be my children's room mom, team mom. a foster mom because of the job flexibility. I loved not taking it home. I liked an occasional layover no matter how short, it was still more "alone" time than EVER at home. I hated going non routine (I was lucky, not very often), fighting over written contractual violations (fly now, grieve later) and the stupidity o f management decisions based on knee jerk , right out of college marketing decisions that were not well thought out. Out of the industry I am very lucky to be is a profession that actually changes (for the better) lives and every day I feel good about what I do. BUT, I take it home, that happens with social services, get frustrated with Gov (state) that makes knee jerk decisons without doing their research. Which is "harder"? Real word by far BUT they are so different it isn't fair to compare. As I stated earlier, the airline industry (at least flying) is an addictive lifestyle.

 

[Skymess]

Oh I don't know about that Chris. I have somewhere in the range of 15,000,000 miles as a f/a. I think that gives me license to chime in...

you know what Nanc. I came back to retract my last quote of my post but it's too late to edit. You're right. My bad.
I enjoy hearing from former airline people. I just don't like when anyone acts like they're the authority on anything, specifically ALL aspects of a job they no longer do. There's always wiggle room in anything and just because I worked for 3 airlines doesn't mean I can chime in on the work rules at all of them. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Skymess]

You're right. If you do a job for many years, you have no idea what it is like to do that job. And the minute you quit or retire, you instantly lose all knowledge of it like it never happened.

Oh, and did I miss where you listed all those jobs that give more time off? Funny how you deflect and try to change the subject into me instead of discussing the issue.

You're still trying to compare apples to oranges. Not every schedule has that many days off. Even the schedules with a lot of days off have a harder workload than people do at most jobs. I don't see most people expected to go to work and assume so many different roles in order to get through the day. So what is your point? Is your point that we don't work hard and we don't deserve a raise?

 

[Bear96]

So what is your point? Is your point that we don't work hard and we don't deserve a raise?

I'll repeat it yet again: It is not accurate to imply, as Jim did IMO, that a "typical" F/A schedule is 5-on / 2-off and has 52 duty hours per week.

That is all. I am not sure how any F/A can disagree with that, and how people are reading so much more into it than that does not make sense.

 

[nbmcg01]

I'll repeat it yet again: It is not accurate to imply, as Jim did IMO, that a "typical" F/A schedule is 5-on / 2-off and has 52 duty hours per week.

That is all. I am not sure how any F/A can disagree with that, and how people are reading so much more into it than that does not make sense.

Bear, back "in the day", f/a schedules had much more time off. 3 on 4 off, 2 "big girl" turns a week, 2 on 3 off were the norm. From what I see, this is not the norm any more. I was able to fly fewer days per month because I got all of my time in at once. I am a big fan of limiting how many legs you can fly in a day. My "ideal" trip (other than STL-ANC) was STL-MCO, layover, MCO-STL-SEA, daytime layover, all nighter from SEA-STL. I would have flown that FO
REVER. I don't think on the last day you should have to come into your base and fly out again, Our most senior trip was LAX-IAD-LAX, as a TURN, eight days a month-why? because you get all 80+ hours of flight time in those 8 days. Now THAT is productive flying.

I also love to hear people complain about jet lag.....of course, the PERCEPTION is that flight crews don't experience jet lag because "we're used to it". Folks you NEVER get used to it.

Good, bad or indifferent, flying is (was) a great job. That is why so many are fighting to get back...

 

[TWskyliner]

I've never had any other job where I said even ONCE, "I can't believe I get paid to do this."
There's a reason people stay around forever,even when..."the writing is on the (so called) wall..."