floatingon9
Member
- Mar 10, 2010
- 39
- 1
It was just an example. A little exaggerated, but you get the point.
Enough is enough! All systems red!
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- Start date
It was just an example. A little exaggerated, but you get the point.
jimntx
Veteran
Of course, you know all about f/a bidding. And, your statement assumes enough seniority to hold one of your first few choices. Considering the fact that my base has almost no turns in our bid sheet and those lines go very senior, I won't even try to point out the errors in the rest of your statements.
No, no one is forcing me to work at AA. How much are you being paid to be a company shill?
Bear. You really shouldn't comment about what you know nothing about. We all work different hours. We don't work 40 hours AT A DESK, that's true. There are a lot of hours we are on duty where we are not being paid. Each base and division has a different work load. There are some sweet, easy, trips. Those are not the majority. To say that the FAs from most major airlines don't work that much compared to people in most other jobs is not true.
Oh, then you also know that if those two trips at the beginning and end of the vacation are the only two trips on that line than that is how much pay your vacation is worth. So let's see, when you take your vacation do you get paid for 30 hours or 80?
Josh,
The crew rest seats are chosen to provide the best rest possible given management's past decisons on aircraft configuration.
I've sat in various crew rest seats over 15 years as the seats changed back and forth. With some seat positions, aft bulkhead near the galley, any rest was near impossible. While this wasn't a factor on many flights, sometimes I just read and watched movies on my breaks, it sometimes was a critical issue on flights arriving in bad weather while dealing with mechanical issues. This is the reason why the seats were chosen by the union and the company.
The pilot crew rest seat could have been located in a private area or cordoned off. Your "underpaid" management decided to save money and not do this. On the B777, Boeing offers an overhead "condo" over the forward galley just aft of the cockpit. It's outfitted with 2 bunks and 2 seats completely out of view of the passengers. Management chose not to spend the money, not the pilots.
AA89
Veteran
- Jun 1, 2010
- 690
- 320
What's most frustating is the (lack of) service from flight attendants and other AA employees. I flew to Tokyo-Narita Japan in international first class last month and had the pleasure of riding in the cabin with several of your co-workers-there were 9 non-revs and only 2 revenue passengers (including myself). The flight attendant call button seems to be treated as a lighting fixture. I had to walk up to the galley to obtain a glass of water mid-flight and was greeted by a disgruntled, senior FA who seemed to think I have no business disturbing her jump seat reading. No other carrier will allow non-revs to conduct themselves the way AA does. Non-revs were making noise, were poorly dressed, and clearly stood out from the revenue passengers. What's even more frustrating is that the best seat on the plane is reserved for, yep the pilot crewrest. I thought the golden rule for customer service is "the customer always comes first". Aparently not at AA and not with your union members. What's even more disturbing was watching the purser on AA 1339 last week (737-800 BOS-ORD) carry back a full meal to a non-rev seated in economy-as if it wasn't noticed by customers. This really sends the wrong message and is disgusting.
Josh
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Hmmm, Sorry you had a bad experience on the NRT flight last month. I have flown the DFW-NRT flight twice as a non-rev in the past 6 months in both first and business class and have never noticed any of what you are reporting. As a matter of fact, in 21 years of non-reving on AA I can't ever recall any employees who were traveling that stuck out from paying passengers in the way you describe. Yes it can be easy to pick us out sometimes because of how we are dressed and hover around the counter at the gate before departure, but usually we are just trying to pay attention to what the agents are doing. And yeah, the long flights get the senior attendants. Maybe not as cute as the ones you may connect on out of NRT but most are attentive and pleasant. and despite a decal on their bag, once the door closes they put that aside.
Sounds like with all that you had to complain about on ONE flight, maybe YOU were having a bad day.
How do you know the meal was going to an economy class passenger and not a flight attendant meal going to the back of the plane for a f/a? A more likely scenario.
In response to labor issues.You are right. Management has a right to impose whatever they want on labor and ultimately we can accept it or move on. But when there is no moral reason for management's greed and it goes against the spirit of an agreement labor made with them, then it is wrong. Only a souless believer in the capitalistic system with no regard for the people that provide the labor for American Airlines would side with management on this issue. There is no moral defense for their actions.
Well good luck with CO. But I think you will have the same perception there.
Josh
[/quote]
Hmmm, Sorry you had a bad experience on the NRT flight last month. I have flown the DFW-NRT flight twice as a non-rev in the past 6 months in both first and business class and have never noticed any of what you are reporting. As a matter of fact, in 21 years of non-reving on AA I can't ever recall any employees who were traveling that stuck out from paying passengers in the way you describe. Yes it can be easy to pick us out sometimes because of how we are dressed and hover around the counter at the gate before departure, but usually we are just trying to pay attention to what the agents are doing. And yeah, the long flights get the senior attendants. Maybe not as cute as the ones you may connect on out of NRT but most are attentive and pleasant. and despite a decal on their bag, once the door closes they put that aside.
Sounds like with all that you had to complain about on ONE flight, maybe YOU were having a bad day.
How do you know the meal was going to an economy class passenger and not a flight attendant meal going to the back of the plane for a f/a? A more likely scenario.
In response to labor issues.You are right. Management has a right to impose whatever they want on labor and ultimately we can accept it or move on. But when there is no moral reason for management's greed and it goes against the spirit of an agreement labor made with them, then it is wrong. Only a souless believer in the capitalistic system with no regard for the people that provide the labor for American Airlines would side with management on this issue. There is no moral defense for their actions.
Well good luck with CO. But I think you will have the same perception there.
So your problem isn't the contract it's your lack of seniority. There is enough real things to complain about rather then your lack seniority. How about the fact they want to pay us less for vacation time or pay less for PVD days, but yet take the same amount of days. Complain about something real that effects EVERYBODY.......
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #38
I completely agree management at AA is incompetent and does not have employees interests at heart. Honestly, I'd like to see AA continue to provide stable, rewarding careers to its employees (like yourselves) but you must recognize that some of the union demands are unreasonable at this time given AA's capital position and operating environment of $75/barrel oil and a (slowly improving) global economy in turmoil. As I've said before, I'm pro-employee but it also seems the consensus among the posters on this board is labor issues should be separate from customers which I appreciate.
I think AA management could improve the profitability of AMR if it worked to align employee interests with management interests, encouraged (and valued) employee participation, and also encouraged management involvement on the front lines. If Arpey & Co were subject to working with the traveling public and flying MD 80s regularly, they would understand that many of the employees concerns are legitimate-I certainly do. I agree that the bonus situation can be frustrating to employees who have given pay concessions year after year to this company. But recognize that their compensation is part of a legally binding contract, much like yours. Again I'm not here to rationalize bonuses are acceptable given AA's financial performance but I do believe they could attract better talent in management with better pay.
It is unfortunate they did not consider adding the overhead crew rest. Perhaps they are being "penny wise and pound foolish" as the additional first class seats could be sold (assuming a more competitive product was offered in a better configuration). I know Delta and Continental offer these for crew on their 777s. If I may ask though, what is the bunkroom neat row 31 on the 777? Is it only for FAs? I flew LHR-JFK in March in seat 31B and was able to see inside.
As for the non-rev issue, it was fairly clear to me that the individuals were non-revs/pass riders of some sort. Several were discussing work related matters with the purser and other FAs, taking pictures of the meal and cabin seating, and had airline IDs. I also overheard the purser mention we had 9 non-revs in F cabin.
Again, I apologize if I come across as being overly critical and anti-employee. Judging by how AA treats its customers, I can only imagine how employees are treated on a regular basis. I feel as a customer I have legitimate concerns, but I also feel employees have a right to honest, open communication with management, fair pay, safe working conditions, and involvement in decision making. No pun intended here, if the management does end up working during any strike actions, I hope they will come to appreciate how challenging the job is and have more regard for their employees when making decisions.
Josh
That is a great point or how about FA's don't get paid for EPT's (two days for free), or the fact that FA's don't get paid even though they are boarding the airplane or disembaking or waiting for the wheel chair people to get off the A/C, or cleaning the plane on a through trip. There are a lot of real problems with the FA contract that have not been addressed.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #40
I recognize that the labor disputes at AA are not unique. Currently, Continental and United are operating separately as the merger still has not received regulatory approval. I actually have been flying low-cost carriers more regularly because of AA cutbacks. I flew JetBlue to San Diego recently and Southwest to Denver. I'm not dissatisfied with their service and recognize they have a different business model and serve a different market segment than AA. If AA still operated BOS-SAN, I would gladly give them my business and even pay fare premium if necessary.
I also wanted to ask if employees share my sentiment that AA should be operated more routes rather than code sharing with partners? If AA exposed itself to markets like Seoul, Tel Aviv, Hong Kong it would provide new opportunities for AA employees rather than overseas (and presumably non-union) employees of partners.
AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,242
The original premise of your first post was to state why you no longer fly AA and what it would take to get you back. Here is one quote "I'm no longer willing to pay a fare premium and have to double connect with partners to give AA and Oneworld my business."
Yet you then have the above quote. You also state how "union employees are grossly overpaid" and then post this "I also feel employees have a right to honest, open communication with management, fair pay". So, who are you to decide what my fair pay is, from your previous post, we are "grossly overpaid".
One other thing that has my head spinning. "I must give the APFA credit for recognizing you have incompetent management. While you all love to blast them for their seemingly rich compensation and stock performace bonuses, the fact of the matter is they are underpaid".
Yep, incompetent management deserves more money and the frontline folks are "grossly overpaid".
All I can say is STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!
Riiiiight.
As I mentioned, I know a lot about how much F/As work, and about F/A scheduling. I used to be a F/A myself, and I have additional experience regarding F/A scheduling procedures well above and beyond just being a line F/A. Plus I have worked in the "real world" outside the airlines.
So this martyr thing you and jimntx have going on about how overworked - or even how "equallyworked" - the average F/A is compared to the average non-F/A employee simply will not fly with me.
Of course, if you have never had a non-F/A job (and I know jimntx has because he constantly talks about his time as some sort of manager or executive or whatever in the oil biz, but I do not know your work history, skymess), or if you have had one so long ago that you have forgotten what it is like, you may be out of touch with reality outside of the F/A and airline lifestyle.
kirkpatrick
Veteran
Riiiiight.
As I mentioned, I know a lot about how much F/As work, and about F/A scheduling. I used to be a F/A myself, and I have additional experience regarding F/A scheduling procedures well above and beyond just being a line F/A. Plus I have worked in the "real world" outside the airlines.
So this martyr thing you and jimntx have going on about how overworked - or even how "equallyworked" - the average F/A is compared to the average non-F/A employee simply will not fly with me.
Of course, if you have never had a non-F/A job (and I know jimntx has because he constantly talks about his time as some sort of manager or executive or whatever in the oil biz, but I do not know your work history, skymess), or if you have had one so long ago that you have forgotten what it is like, you may be out of touch with reality outside of the F/A and airline lifestyle.
Bear. I've had a few 'real' jobs. I was not as worked as I am now.
Maybe when you were a flight attendant the flights were overstaffed and the workload wasn't as much. Mabye you were lucky enough to fly only sweet trips with short duty days.
This industry has undergone a tremendous change since 9/11. The work load, and duty day, has significantly increased. Just because you were a flight attendant once doesn't give you leave to state with any kind of certainty what kind of workload Jim, I, or any other CURRENT flight attendant bears.
