I wouldn't work at a place where I was paid for 5 hours after working 15. Why people continue to work for a company they hate, where they are represented by a union they hate tells me that they are overpaid ....otherwise they WOULD quit and go to another - better - company for the same or better pay.
Enough is enough! All systems red!
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I wouldn't work at a place where I was paid for 5 hours after working 15. Why people continue to work for a company they hate, where they are represented by a union they hate tells me that they are overpaid ....otherwise they WOULD quit and go to another - better - company for the same or better pay.
IMHO,
Your reply to the qouted post falls into the realm of the rapist claiming that the raped was: "just asking for it because of the way they were dressed."
I couldn't agree more, but you have to remember FA's are part time workers at full time pay (health benefits that cost half as much as the TWU health benefits) $45 an hour. There are more FA's working 3 days a week or less + FA's who take 3 month to 1 year leaves. Then there are FA's who need to work. I do not understand all the complainers at AA who continue to work at AA. If there are better jobs available why would they stay. The FA's at AA are a highly educated group. I would venture to say that at least half the FA are over qualified to do this job.
I'll tell you another thing you get the same quality of service from the FA's as you did before the 2003 contract, it's just the bitter ones are more pronounced because all the junior ones (haven't been doing this job for 20 years) got furloughed,not to say some of the senior FA's aren't great, there are just a lot of slackers out there (you know who you are, not doing your job properly isn't going to make Arpey pay you more. Pilots and Mechanics do they're job professionally) Plus AA has scaled down the service.
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
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As a fellow flight attendant, how is it possible that you were on duty for 15 hours and paid for 5? Our e-time says you should at least 7.5 hours in a 15 hour day. Perhaps you are exaggerating a bit?
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
- 627
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As a fellow flight attendant, it is impossible to be on duty for 15 hours and be paid for 5. The minimum pay for a 15 hour day is 7.5 hours. The fact that we are guaranteed to be paid only 1 minute for every 2 minutes on duty is bad enough without having to exaggerate.
Please let me know when you are on a flight as I do not want someone with "Maintenence" [sic] expertise working on the aircraft in which I am flying...while in flight.
Yes. Do you work 5-on / 2-off, 52-hour weeks every week (except for a couple of times per year when you might be on vacation)?
Wait, I'll answer that: No. The average AA F/A work schedule is nothing like that, and you know it. Trotting out a particularly tough seven-day period as an example and implying that is a normal week is misleading.
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
- 627
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Dude, what point are you trying to make? That until we slave away at dull job 5 days a week like the rest of you then we never deserve a raise? This job is unique and that what makes it so appealing that we have practically zero attrition. There are times when we work way more then 40 duty hours a week and there are times we have a week off. That is not unique to just American Airlines. It is true for most US airlines. We are no different except that in my opinion we have the most flexibility of any flight attendant group.
kirkpatrick
Veteran
Tell me, would most people in 8 hrs per day, 5 day per week jobs object if they were told they would now have to work 9 hours per day or 6 days per week, even if they would make a bit more money?
That's what I thought.
MK
jimntx
Veteran
Oh, and your expertise as to what my schedules are or are not like comes from where? Your rear? At my seniority, my schedule is quite often like I quoted. But then, since you have intimate knowledge of my particular schedule, I must be wrong.
For your great exalted (lack of) knowledge, Yes, I usually work only 15-18 days/month. However, the company schedules us on duty on many of those days to the max or near it--12.5 to 13 hours. That is fact.
And, no. I don't fly high time. I don't have to.
I get less than 2 weeks vacation, and I only get paid for those vacation days where I had trips on "on-call" reserve days. I "earn" 14 days vacation per year, but I am never paid for more than 7-10 of them. Again, at my seniority, it's usually closer to 7 than 10.
I was not trying to make any particular point. I was just responding to Jim's invitation to ask a question, and calling him out for trying to exaggerate how much AA F/As actually work.
But if I were trying to make a point, it would be that AA F/As (and, really, F/As at most if not all major airlines) do not work that much compared to people in most other jobs. To suggest otherwise is silly. And I certainly never said or implied that F/As "never deserve a raise."
Hmm, I seem to have struck a nerve.
As a matter of fact, I have a great deal of expertise regarding F/A scheduling. Of course I do not know your particular schedule in any given 7-day period. But it is nice how you ignore my main point: It is misleading to imply, as IMO your post did, that AA F/As regularly work 5-on / 2-off and are regularly on duty 52 hours per week.
Perception is a strange enemy of the truth:
Are you certain the first class section was filled with non-revs? Usually we are able to tell non revs because they ARE the ones "dressed up". I can't tell you how many high level execs I've had in sandals (then bare feet on the bulkhead), shorts, tee shirts, whatever the feel most comfortable wearing from point A to B.
The meal "breaking curtain". On long flights it may have been a f/a taking a tray to the back galley so that they could eat or share left over food. Meals are no longer provided on most flights regardless of the the duty day.
Crew rest seat. Take that up with the pilots union. You would have hated TWA as all of the crew rest seats were in f/c or business class. It comes with the FAA rest requirements. Perhaps seats should be removed and crew quarters and a private bath should be installed for crew use only so that we (the traveling public) aren't inconvenienced by bathrooms and seats being occupied or used for required crew breaks.
I believe strongly that many of our nation's airlines have gotten it "wrong" when it comes to survival. Instead of screwing your employees (after signing contracts that mangt. immediately looks for loopholes to abrogate), laying off front line staff and cutting to bare minimum, the exact opposite should be done..."kill" the customer with staffing, service and kindness. Treat the employees fairly. Leadership and sacrifice SHOULD start at the top. As for your comment about AAs execs being underpaid, horse hockey. There never will be strong talent retention. Why, because the good old boy network is fully engaged. AA is not alone in this area. Occasionally you will luck out and snag a great senior mangt. team, but that is the exception not the rule. I will refer you back to the 60-70s The Peter Principle, which is still alive and well in 2010. And to bring up another over used but still true concept: You have to take care of the internal customer if you want the external customer to be happy.
F/as not working a full time job. Once again perception. The time off is there for a reason. It is mandated by the FAA for pilots and f/as. The better the crew planning, the more productive the scheduling of the crews. AA does not have very cost effective crew planning. Bid sheets should be "run" about 3 more times to better pair flights. Less "sits" (which anyone outside the industry does not understand as being as tiring as actually working a flight), multiple legs per day, crossing multiple time zones, (circadian rhythm disruption), poor re-cycled air and nutrition, all enter into the equation. If it is so "hard" why do we continue to fly? Because it is an addictive lifestyle. We are able to manipulate schedules so we can have time with our families. We often miss major holidays and this is part of the trade off. I don't question anyone else's work "rules" unless I have experienced them and I think perhaps many who "complain" about f/as time off have truly never walked in their shoes.
Finally, you pay for what you get. I have never had a bad flight on AA. I have had excellent and I have had "what I paid for". I only fly full fare so I can wear jeans or sandals in f/c (if I choose) and I don't have to wait for sometimes days to get on my flight. Pass riding just isn't worth the PERCEIVED perk . Every flight I have a choice where my dollars will be spent, and so do you. Discs are just that, discs. Never should a labor dispute affect the treatment or service a customer receives. The fight is with the employer, not the customer. Unfortunately, in self help ALL lose.
Are you certain the first class section was filled with non-revs? Usually we are able to tell non revs because they ARE the ones "dressed up". I can't tell you how many high level execs I've had in sandals (then bare feet on the bulkhead), shorts, tee shirts, whatever the feel most comfortable wearing from point A to B.
The meal "breaking curtain". On long flights it may have been a f/a taking a tray to the back galley so that they could eat or share left over food. Meals are no longer provided on most flights regardless of the the duty day.
Crew rest seat. Take that up with the pilots union. You would have hated TWA as all of the crew rest seats were in f/c or business class. It comes with the FAA rest requirements. Perhaps seats should be removed and crew quarters and a private bath should be installed for crew use only so that we (the traveling public) aren't inconvenienced by bathrooms and seats being occupied or used for required crew breaks.
I believe strongly that many of our nation's airlines have gotten it "wrong" when it comes to survival. Instead of screwing your employees (after signing contracts that mangt. immediately looks for loopholes to abrogate), laying off front line staff and cutting to bare minimum, the exact opposite should be done..."kill" the customer with staffing, service and kindness. Treat the employees fairly. Leadership and sacrifice SHOULD start at the top. As for your comment about AAs execs being underpaid, horse hockey. There never will be strong talent retention. Why, because the good old boy network is fully engaged. AA is not alone in this area. Occasionally you will luck out and snag a great senior mangt. team, but that is the exception not the rule. I will refer you back to the 60-70s The Peter Principle, which is still alive and well in 2010. And to bring up another over used but still true concept: You have to take care of the internal customer if you want the external customer to be happy.
F/as not working a full time job. Once again perception. The time off is there for a reason. It is mandated by the FAA for pilots and f/as. The better the crew planning, the more productive the scheduling of the crews. AA does not have very cost effective crew planning. Bid sheets should be "run" about 3 more times to better pair flights. Less "sits" (which anyone outside the industry does not understand as being as tiring as actually working a flight), multiple legs per day, crossing multiple time zones, (circadian rhythm disruption), poor re-cycled air and nutrition, all enter into the equation. If it is so "hard" why do we continue to fly? Because it is an addictive lifestyle. We are able to manipulate schedules so we can have time with our families. We often miss major holidays and this is part of the trade off. I don't question anyone else's work "rules" unless I have experienced them and I think perhaps many who "complain" about f/as time off have truly never walked in their shoes.
Finally, you pay for what you get. I have never had a bad flight on AA. I have had excellent and I have had "what I paid for". I only fly full fare so I can wear jeans or sandals in f/c (if I choose) and I don't have to wait for sometimes days to get on my flight. Pass riding just isn't worth the PERCEIVED perk . Every flight I have a choice where my dollars will be spent, and so do you. Discs are just that, discs. Never should a labor dispute affect the treatment or service a customer receives. The fight is with the employer, not the customer. Unfortunately, in self help ALL lose.
I've fixed the Video systems and reset the audio systems for passengers to enjoy Movies and reset the CART lift (on DC10's and 747 classics Years ago) so that passengers might enjoy MEALS. I'm not talking about Overhauls here and I ALWAYS render my card to the flight attendants in CASE they need my help. as I'm SURE Many American or Delta mechanics and MAINTENENCE supervisors would do AS WELL. That is unless you'd LIKE to be on a 13hour flight with no movies nor audio entertainment. I don't get calls much anymore in flight because our cabin crews can speak to a passenger cabin entertainmant maintenence rep over satcom to help alleviate problems. I'm sure American and Delta have some relative position as well.
Contrary to popular belief, we DO want our passengers comfortable and "NON-Irritated" like this gentleman seemed to be
And whatever I'm doing on a flight the LAST thing I would do is Advertise it to any passenger that the airplane even Required my services.. You don't need to know that anyway.
It's funny how you forgot to mention that if your on vacation for 2 weeks, and your vacation starts on a Saturday, FA's will bid a 3 day trip that starts on Thursday, ends on Saturday that way the FA will be tripped removed for that 3 day trip, and get the extra time off and get paid for a 3 day trip she/he didn't work. And do the same thing on the back side of the vacation extending their vacation by a week or two.
As far as being on duty for 12.5 to 13 hours, That is the line are YOU bidding. That sounds like you trying to get all your hours on turns, or you run into a lot of bad weather days. The FA job is hard enough without you trying to act the martyr. If the job was such a torture why do you stay?
Not saying the FA's don't deserve a raise, but nobody is forcing you to work at AA.
