Emergency landing after row of seats comes loose

[Glenn Quagmire]

I believe that they would have to be FAA approved.

You are correct. FAA PMA or meeting TSO.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

This is from an article late today:



http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2012/oct/03/1/american-airlines-blames-timco-for-loose-seats-ar-2662103/

If the journalists accurately paraphrased Campbell, and if he accurately described the new seats, then who is the idiot that approved the new seats with the "tempermental" hand-tightened bolts? Hand-tightened bolts? WTF??

I am not an engineer, but this does not inspire confidence. When you're bolting things together and you properly torque the bolts, those things don't separate unless the bolt fails, and that's not real common. Hand-tightened? I've replaced faucets with hand-tightened supply lines, but my bathroom never encounters vibration or high G-forces like airplane seat mounts probably do. My new dishwasher had a plastic supply inlet and warned to hand-tighten the supply line lest you break the plastic fitting. But the dishwasher never has to endure three humans weighing upwards of 600-750 pounds nor the abuse that a row of three seats receives on a daily basis.

One of the finest peices of yellow journalism I have seen in quite some time. I love the parlay into another diversion event for an entertainment system item. I also love the quote from the guy from the "National Air Disaster Alliance". Nice touch.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

In my experience with seat installations the forward feet are a quarter sized round foot that is put into a hole in the track and slid forward or back under a tang in the track and a star nut is tightened holding the foot against the track by friction.. the aft foot is similar and usually has two or three feet that slide under the tang and secured by friction with a screw or the saddle feature they mentioned.. the aft foot also has a latch that goes down into the track between the tangs and keeps any forward/aft movement from taking place..

For a seat to come loose and out of the track the latch would likely have popped up and eventually the friction on the feet would have lessened enough that it shifted out from under the tang and this would have to happen on both inboard and outboard legs of the seat..

In the installations at HC or MODS they are all inspected after installation..

My question is were the seats that failed re-pitched by an outside vendor? We will probably never hear who last installed the seats!!

 

[Bob Owens]

This is from an article late today:



http://www2.journaln...ats-ar-2662103/

If the journalists accurately paraphrased Campbell, and if he accurately described the new seats, then who is the idiot that approved the new seats with the "tempermental" hand-tightened bolts? Hand-tightened bolts? WTF??

I am not an engineer, but this does not inspire confidence. When you're bolting things together and you properly torque the bolts, those things don't separate unless the bolt fails, and that's not real common. Hand-tightened? I've replaced faucets with hand-tightened supply lines, but my bathroom never encounters vibration or high G-forces like airplane seat mounts probably do. My new dishwasher had a plastic supply inlet and warned to hand-tighten the supply line lest you break the plastic fitting. But the dishwasher never has to endure three humans weighing upwards of 600-750 pounds nor the abuse that a row of three seats receives on a daily basis.

I doubt that AA is the only carrier that uses those clamps.

 

[eolesen]

My question is, does AA currently have QC Reps at Timco to accept the work performed there? If they bought off on work done, and it was not to spec, why accept it and why didn't they catch it?

That's a question I've asked on several occasions, and all I've gotten is smart-ass responses. Is there anyone from AA who is qualified and based at Timco to oversee the work being done on AA's planes?

How true. No problem until outsourced.

Perhaps issues like that simply weren't reported until the work was outsourced? I've seen it several times with IT outsourcing -- problems are everywhere, but simply get fixed because you're not really interested in drawing too much negative attention by blaming your co-workers. But the moment the same system gets handed over to a vendor to maintain & operate, every issue gets documented.

I am not an engineer, but this does not inspire confidence. When you're bolting things together and you properly torque the bolts, those things don't separate unless the bolt fails, and that's not real common. Hand-tightened?

A design flaw? In an aircraft part? That's never happened before... Oh, wait, it has.

I believe that they would have to be FAA approved.

Yep. But perhaps there wasn't enough testing done to discover that there might actually be a problem with the design. Lots of things look great on CAD and in the lab, but wind up failing in the field.

Not saying it's the case, but you guys have gone so far across the line at trying to make this an "outsourcing gone bad" case study, perhaps you need to consider how you step back if it does wind up being a design issue...

How long has this track clamp been in use? And with which carriers?

 

[blue collar]

That's a question I've asked on several occasions, and all I've gotten is smart-ass responses. Is there anyone from AA who is qualified and based at Timco to oversee the work being done on AA's planes?



Perhaps issues like that simply weren't reported until the work was outsourced? I've seen it several times with IT outsourcing -- problems are everywhere, but simply get fixed because you're not really interested in drawing too much negative attention by blaming your co-workers. But the moment the same system gets handed over to a vendor to maintain & operate, every issue gets documented.

The reps that AA would have at timco would only care about paperwork. They don't actually follow their people around to make sure work is being done properly.

And no, this wasn't a problem before outsourcing. I can't remember and emergency landings due to rows of seats coming loose and falling into the next row. Not something thats easily covered up, no matter who does the work.

 

[Bandit6794]

That's a question I've asked on several occasions, and all I've gotten is smart-ass responses. Is there anyone from AA who is qualified and based at Timco to oversee the work being done on AA's planes?



Perhaps issues like that simply weren't reported until the work was outsourced? I've seen it several times with IT outsourcing -- problems are everywhere, but simply get fixed because you're not really interested in drawing too much negative attention by blaming your co-workers. But the moment the same system gets handed over to a vendor to maintain & operate, every issue gets documented.



A design flaw? In an aircraft part? That's never happened before... Oh, wait, it has.



Yep. But perhaps there wasn't enough testing done to discover that there might actually be a problem with the design. Lots of things look great on CAD and in the lab, but wind up failing in the field.

Not saying it's the case, but you guys have gone so far across the line at trying to make this an "outsourcing gone bad" case study, perhaps you need to consider how you step back if it does wind up being a design issue...

How long has this track clamp been in use? And with which carriers?

Are you a tool or what ? These seats are common world wide....They were installed incorrectly by a known chop shop Timco...Period...They frekken failed just like AMR,s management who you always defend. I will never fly on our 757,s again because of Timco.

 

[Bob Owens]

The reps that AA would have at timco would only care about paperwork. They don't actually follow their people around to make sure work is being done properly.

And no, this wasn't a problem before outsourcing. I can't remember and emergency landings due to rows of seats coming loose and falling into the next row. Not something thats easily covered up, no matter who does the work.

What concerns me is the stuff that is more easily "covered up". Stuff that passengers may not notice and may not make the headlines till the FAA levies fines. I think we will hear more in the future just like when those planes went to NC.

 

[eolesen]

The reps that AA would have at timco would only care about paperwork. They don't actually follow their people around to make sure work is being done properly.

And no, this wasn't a problem before outsourcing. I can't remember and emergency landings due to rows of seats coming loose and falling into the next row. Not something thats easily covered up, no matter who does the work.

Maybe not seat rows, but you can categorically say you've never seen a problem out of a mod line or overhaul? Seriously? Because we sure heard about it during the "my base works better than your base" debate between MCI, TUL, and AFW a few years ago.... particularly on corrosion inspections if I recall.

 

[Mach85ER]

Get some rest E.

You'll need it to defend Management later today.

 

[Super FLUF]

Heard there were now 50 757s OTS. Cancellations left and right. Obviously the fault of the pilot "sick out." Here is the smoking gun -

Average Daily Pilot Sick Rates for...
April 2012 - 458 pilots, 6.01%
May 2012 - 533 pilots, 7.00%
June 2012 - 566 pilots, 7.40%
July 2012 - 467 pilots, 6.14%
August 2012 - 504 pilots, 6.65%

September Daily Pilot Sick Rates
9/04 - 442 pilots, 5.84%
9/05 - 445 pilots, 5.88%
9/06 - 442 pilots, 5.84%
9/07 - 472 pilots, 6.24%
9/08 - 501 pilots, 6.62%
9/09 - 523 pilots, 6.91%
9/10 - 514 pilots, 6.79%
9/11 - 505 pilots, 6.67%
9/12 - 522 pilots, 6.90%
9/13 - 537 pilots, 7.10%
9/14 - 570 pilots, 7.53%
9/15 - 611 pilots, 8.08%
9/16 - 607 pilots, 8.02%
9/17 - 501 pilots, 6.62%
9/18 - 564 pilots, 7.56%
9/19 - 576 pilots, 7.61%
9/20 - 571 pilots, 7.55%
9/21 - 573 pilots, 7.57%
9/22 - 587 pilots, 7.76%

The historically normal daily pilot sick range is 6.5% to 8.5%. Since AMR's rejection of our contract, daily pilot sick rates have NOT deviated outside the normal range.

Obviously the company needs a TRO against the pilots for this malfeasance. The TRO will get those planes airborne within hours.

 

[mike7863]

you know if i was the president of timco, and my company was getting blame for this i think i would yelling from the top of the roofs saying it wasnt his companies fault. but has anyone heard anything from timco about this? all i have heard is our great management throwing us under the bus. because they cant come out and say, yes it was us, american mangagement, didnt do our research on the company that we want to work on our aircraft and now we are paying for it. but i guess thats in a perfect world that would happen in.

 

[dfw gen]

E its pretty simple there is PROBABLY one manager at timco doing "QA" and buying it back pretty much ensuring all the blocks are signed. In China the ":designee" is daryl marquote affectionatly known as "wiggy D"for his habit of "wigging out"

 

[face]

inside job from a disgruntled employee. simple as that. it won't stop the outsourcing by blaming timco or any other facility.

 

[amt66]

inside job from a disgruntled employee. simple as that. it won't stop the outsourcing by blaming timco or any other facility.

Your a moron!