Effective Date Triggers - Timelines...

[Graceson]

Probably most immediate on the timeline will be pay rates, retrospective and lump sum triggers. By 15 Dec pay date I'd hope to see new rates.

What about duty rigs? The 18 hour pay for 4-day trips reek under new rest rules.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Probably most immediate on the timeline will be pay rates, retrospective and lump sum triggers. By 15 Dec pay date I'd hope to see new rates.

What about duty rigs? The 18 hour pay for 4-day trips reek under new rest rules.

 
Whose contract allows an 18 hour 4-day?

 

[Pi brat]

 
Whose contract allows an 18 hour 4-day?

Ours if you don't have 4 duty periods. We've had 2 DP 12:00 3 days for a long time and FAR 117 has produced more for us domestic slugs. Too day the APA gave up the west's long rate and the 1:3.25 that was in the MOU for RONs over 24 hours.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Where did you see that? The MOU says the rig is 1 for 3.25 for trips with more duty periods than calendar days. that's waaay better than what we have now on the east.

 

[Crzipilot]

But at what point is that implemented? 2016?

Because if its dec 9. They need to redo the pay values of jan pairings don't they?

 

[Pi brat]

Where did you see that? The MOU says the rig is 1 for 3.25 for trips with more duty periods than calendar days. that's waaay better than what we have now on the east.

Pretty sure the APA gave it up for more per diem. I think it was in an update.

 

[Crzipilot]

Not seeing it in mou. Where do you see this rig?

 

[Pi brat]

March 5th NAC update:
 
"APA $87 million valuations – The APA has completed the valuation phase of negotiations on how to apply the $87 million of annual contract improvements. If you recall during the roadshows, we presented how the APA intended to apply the $87 million and stated that the allocation was subject to change once the final valuation process was complete. During the valuation phase, APA received the most current information on projected training events, distance learning requirements, overall block hour projections and scheduling assumptions. After reaching agreement on valuations with updated data, two items from the original APA Board guidance did not make the final list of improvements. The APA Board of Directors was presented with three scenarios, which the AA and US managements had agreed met the valuation target. To meet the agreed-upon valuation, the APA Board decided to forego the originally proposed 30 months of pay protection and the 1:3.25 additional trip rig for pairings with more calendar days than duty periods. With these two items removed from the list, there was some value left over, which when reallocated, resulted in higher per diem rates than those in the original proposal."
 
With FAR 117 I think this was a mistake, and I thought the MOU put us all on the same level. Wasn't sure how APA gave it up after we voted on an MOU that contained it, but oh well.

 

[Crzipilot]

Found it in apa update too, but they have paragraph 15-7g. Talking about min pay max pay. 5 hours 3 hours. Wonder if that would help some. To much duty rig legalize for me to decipher


An don't think it was in the mou. But was in their contract. Which was amended by their mou. Which had to be further modified by cost savings of their choosing for some of the increased pay rates per firm and 16% contribution.from 14%

 

[Reed Richards]

March 5th NAC update:
 
"APA $87 million valuations – The APA has completed the valuation phase of negotiations on how to apply the $87 million of annual contract improvements. If you recall during the roadshows, we presented how the APA intended to apply the $87 million and stated that the allocation was subject to change once the final valuation process was complete. During the valuation phase, APA received the most current information on projected training events, distance learning requirements, overall block hour projections and scheduling assumptions. After reaching agreement on valuations with updated data, two items from the original APA Board guidance did not make the final list of improvements. The APA Board of Directors was presented with three scenarios, which the AA and US managements had agreed met the valuation target. To meet the agreed-upon valuation, the APA Board decided to forego the originally proposed 30 months of pay protection and the 1:3.25 additional trip rig for pairings with more calendar days than duty periods. With these two items removed from the list, there was some value left over, which when reallocated, resulted in higher per diem rates than those in the original proposal."
 
With FAR 117 I think this was a mistake, and I thought the MOU put us all on the same level. Wasn't sure how APA gave it up after we voted on an MOU that contained it, but oh well.

[SIZE=10.5pt]The MOU did not "put us all on the same level." Although I can understand why a lot of guys might think that. All the MOU did is get us in the game, and get us paid while the time certain joint CBA process goes on. I specifically asked one of the NAC members a few months ago if I could get paid less than 20 hours by being out on a 4 day that only worked three. The answer was I would get the 20 hours. I will ask again. But the only silver lining I see is all AMR pilots will eventually be under the same rules. It’s not like the West Class, WANTING us to be compensated less. The APA guys are smart enough to know the dangers in that scenario.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]As to the Jan pairings, every one of my trips has deadhead paying only half time, with a ton of PNC (almost 7 hours!)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]RR[/SIZE]

 

[Bill Brasky]

It's still in the comparison chart on the merger committee page of the USAPA website. I think I do remember seeing that a long time ago about APA giving it up, but the 1 for 3.5 rig would still apply, just like it does now. It's still on the chart under "Long Rate" of the duty rigs.

Looks like the rigs that still apply are:
1:2 for duty periods
1:3.5 for trips
1:2 for sit times greater than 2 hours
Min day 3.0, average min day 5.0 for trips
Plus, full pay for deadhead, just like it always should have been!

Except for some minor things, the rigs are very similar to what the East has now. All the minor changes appear to me to benefit the pilot group, not hurt them.

 

[Crzipilot]

Think the nac needs to be putting out specific details on our pay etc. to many rotating targets

 

[Reed Richards]

It's still in the comparison chart on the merger committee page of the USAPA website. I think I do remember seeing that a long time ago about APA giving it up, but the 1 for 3.5 rig would still apply, just like it does now. It's still on the chart under "Long Rate" of the duty rigs.

Looks like the rigs that still apply are:
1:2 for duty periods
1:3.5 for trips
1:2 for sit times greater than 2 hours
Min day 3.0, average min day 5.0 for trips

Except for some minor things, the rigs are very similar to what the East has now. All the minor changes appear to me to benefit the pilot group, not hurt them.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Yep, overall improvements. By my calculation, a trip that lasts 70 hours would pay 20 hours, no matter how many days it works.  The 1:3.5 lifts all the boats!  I also think the 1:2 on the long sits is really good.  RR [/SIZE]

 

[Bill Brasky]

Think the nac needs to be putting out specific details on our pay etc. to many rotating targets

No doubt about that!

 

[Bill Brasky]

Yep, overall improvements. By my calculation, a trip that lasts 70 hours would pay 20 hours, no matter how many days it works.  The 1:3.5 lifts all the boats!  I also think the 1:2 on the long sits is really good.  RR

Now, when someone gets a 4 hour productivity break they can make some scratch. Hurts to think about all the time I wasted sitting on my keyster waiting a jet to show up. This one rig by itself is huge!