Don't Let Express Fly The 190's

[Rico]

THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE!!!!

Yeah, because United's pilots sure have not held up their end, so leave it to Airways instead. Thanks for the advice

Lets see, United Express Bac Jets, CRJ-700, and now EMB-170's...

All of which are flown by outside companies, and all of which are not even flown by pilots not on the UA pilot list.

You want to make a fuss about us, clean your own house first, and then come and tell us what to do/not to do.

 

[Rico]

You know I want, I want us to get the 190's if that is what we need to be competitive, because that is the line that we have been "losing ground" upon for sometime.

I would like to see them at mainline too, not MDA. But I would SURE rather see them at MDA rather than that flying sent off the property to an outside company like United does with all of their Express flying.

We can fix payscales and work rules later if that flying is on the property. We have ZERO say in what happens if that flying is kept elsewhere.

So am I a huge fan of 90 seaters at MDA ? No. But I am less of a fan of furloughed Airways pilots without a job while Mesa or Chatauqua grows instead...

Like over at United. <_<

 

[boeing787]

Whatever...MDA is a USAIR regional...nothing like calling the pot calling the kettle black. FWIW I don't want them at CHQ or MESA either. However current scope at UAL lets these low paid workers fly these jets...up to 70 seats that is.

 

[Rico]

Yeah, well, our E-170's belong to us, and they provide jobs to us, not some outside pilot group.

Great job? No.

But a better job than what most other furloughees have been able to find.

What do you have to offer your furloughed pilots at UAL in the way of jobs...?

It is a hard deal, but nothing is free. You act like all a pilot negotiating team has to do is say "no" to something, and that is that. Yeah right.

Face the fact that in any union, there are multiple interests looking out for varying things. IF the TA was forced to have no EMB-190's in it, then the negotiating leverage spent to prevent them would have had to be made up from somewhere else. A larger paycut? Even more of a hit to the retirement? How about paying more for health coverage...? No thanks.

Do not be so naive. Obviously it would be preferable to keep the EMB-190s at mainline, with mainline wages if possible. We already had that, they were called the F-100's.

But that was then and this is now. Reality is that we are facing a 1113e hearing soon, and a 1113c process after that. You think 60 E-190's, in house, and flown by our pilots is more of a hit to legacy CBA's than Airways completing a 1113c motion and having our contract abrogated...?

Think again. THAT is the LAST precedent ALPA (or any other union) wants to have set. "Mainline" pay rates and work rules can be negotiated back later on for the E-170/190's when times improve, but only IF they are kept on the property.

I do not like MDA's low pay and work rules, but I realize that having such "subsidizes" the retention of as much of the current Mainline Contract as possible. I would rather "take the hit" now, and salvage more for the future than to have the Mainline CBA further watered down.

 

[passed_over]

Had the word SOPE never evolved into the "Mainline" contract and the words "Flow Through" would have been the much better choice, however ALPA and the mainline pilots let there "arrogance" show its ugly tail and and it looks like particuarly at USAirways there will be "Express Employees" making more then the mainline and mainline express. Oh and then there was JFJ an an APL and a CEL how arrogant can you get. And you wonder why we are were we are as a company.

 

[WOJetDreamer]

I just dont get all the fuss about the types of airplanes. I do see the fuss about pay though. First point first.

Whether it be a CRJ200, 700, 900, or EMB 170, 190, 195, or A319, A320, A321, A330. Does it really take a big better more experienced and older pilot to fly each of these planes. I dont think so. The only difference the amount of seats that are in each plane. I say to make a streamline company we do this.

CRJ 200,700,900= PSA & PDT
EMB 170, 190, 196 = MDA
Airbus = US Airways "Mighty Mainline"

As long as we stick together and fight for fair pay of each aircraft I see no reason why you would be against this. Like I said does it take so much more experience and wisdom to fly these different type of aircraft. I dont think so. The fly the same heights, speeds, and for US Airways system, distance (East Coast with the exception of the few overseas flights) This mentality of "I am older and I got hired at Mainline which means I must have the talent and the abliity to fly bigger aircraft which others just dont have."

You fly bigger airplanes because you have senortiy not because you are so much better that anyone else!

 

[Dizel8]

But why not put the all the airplanes on a single seniority list, with pay as appropiate. To U mgmnt. its should make no difference as to a single list, as long as the pay they seek is kept.

Now it seems, with the latest TA, that one can get furloughed at U ML and not be able to excercise seniority at MDA. What is the purpose of that?

 

[AAviator]

I just dont get all the fuss about the types of airplanes. I do see the fuss about pay though. First point first.

Whether it be a CRJ200, 700, 900, or EMB 170, 190, 195, or A319, A320, A321, A330. Does it really take a big better more experienced and older pilot to fly each of these planes. I dont think so. The only difference the amount of seats that are in each plane. I say to make a streamline company we do this.

CRJ 200,700,900= PSA & PDT
EMB 170, 190, 196 = MDA
Airbus = US Airways "Mighty Mainline"

As long as we stick together and fight for fair pay of each aircraft I see no reason why you would be against this. Like I said does it take so much more experience and wisdom to fly these different type of aircraft. I dont think so. The fly the same heights, speeds, and for US Airways system, distance (East Coast with the exception of the few overseas flights) This mentality of "I am older and I got hired at Mainline which means I must have the talent and the abliity to fly bigger aircraft which others just dont have."

You fly bigger airplanes because you have senortiy not because you are so much better that anyone else!

[post="186830"][/post]​

The only problem is, you've demonstrated willingness to do the job for poverty level wages. The current downward pressure is due to that willingness. Where will it stop?

 

[WOJetDreamer]

The only problem is, you've demonstrated willingness to do the job for poverty level wages. The current downward pressure is due to that willingness. Where will it stop?

[post="186865"][/post]​

I see and agree with your point. But whos fault is that. It has been the Mainline MEC.

"If you agree to this payscale, Jet for Jobs program and a slotted bidding system then "WE" might give you some little jets to fly."

I agree with a single senority list! AND RIGHT NOW WOULD NOT BE A BAD TIME TO DO THIS. Since Mainline is threatening to furlough out of senority and while PSA and PDT is hiring new hires off the street.

 

[Rico]

The only problem is, you've demonstrated willingness to do the job for poverty level wages. The current downward pressure is due to that willingness. Where will it stop?

Unlike American, which has never seen such occur.

BTW, you want to know why we work for low wages at the part of Mainline we call Midatlantic...?, because they negotiated for us to use the same rates as American Eagle.

And as for your American "Mainline", which was where the "original B-scale" was proposed by Creandall to the, and agreed to by the American pilot group years ago... Talk about downward pressure. Midatlantic is nothing but a version of that very same idea YOUR pilot group showed willingness to first allow.

So take your attitude elsewhere, like back to your own messy house Sport. <_<

 

[Winglet]

The sounds of desparation abound while the management's lick their chops. Wait till Lakefield comes back to ALPA in January for yet another slice of ALPAs pie . . . . assuming U lasts that long.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

But why not put the all the airplanes on a single seniority list, with pay as appropiate. To U mgmnt. its should make no difference as to a single list, as long as the pay they seek is kept.

Now it seems, with the latest TA, that one can get furloughed at U ML and not be able to excercise seniority at MDA. What is the purpose of that?

[post="186840"][/post]​

WOjetdreamer stated:

CRJ 200,700,900= PSA & PDT
EMB 170, 190, 196 = MDA
Airbus = US Airways "Mighty Mainline"


But if your on one seniority list doesn't that increase costs of retraining as you move up the seniority list? I'd think those costs would be significant. If you were 'fenced' a bit, costs would be lower and maybe pay could be higher, relatively.

 

[AAviator]

Rico, compare apple to apples please.

Quit blaming your problems on others. You bought the AE comparison.

Supplement "B" was written into APA's contract during the early 80's It was written for the "unborn" on the property, not the currently living as it is at MDA. It was written to adjust compensation packages to compete with newborn deregulation bred mainline airlines. Unlike MDA, which props up a failed business strategy with lower wages.

"Talk about downward pressure. Midatlantic is nothing but a version of that very same idea YOUR pilot group showed willingness to first allow."

Guess what, the B scale is gone at AA. It went away when the B scalers started to outnumber the A scalers on the property.

That'll never happen on your property now will it?

 

[WOJetDreamer]

WOjetdreamer stated:

CRJ 200,700,900= PSA & PDT
EMB 170, 190, 196 = MDA
Airbus = US Airways "Mighty Mainline"
But if your on one seniority list doesn't that increase costs of retraining as you move up the seniority list? I'd think those costs would be significant. If you were 'fenced' a bit, costs would be lower and maybe pay could be higher, relatively.

[post="186899"][/post]​

You are right!!!! You would have to sort of penalize a pilot who jumps from one company to another by making him take a pay cut to the tune of half of his senority. Example: If you are a 10 year Capt. at MDA and you wait till your senority can hold Capt at mainline, then you move over to mainline you must start at 5 year Capt. pay. This would sort of sway a pilot from swithching company and A/C type which would save the company money in training.

And just to comment on some statements. I too find it funny now that the pilots at Mainline are now treating there own brothers at MDA like #### and little worthless express pilots. And your right, the Mainline MEC negoitated MDAs contract and now they dont like it. Talk about crybabies!!! And lets not talk about the #### they make their brothers eat at PSA.

 

[Light Years]

boeing 787, Do you really think that anyone "anyone" is worried about that ???? This company is about belly up and your concerned about one jet type? Seems like the over all picture is more important at this point!

[post="186507"][/post]​

:blink:

Are you serious?!?

If you are REALLY a US Airways flight attendant and plan to remain one, where this plane goes should be your number one concern.

You work for an airline that is 80% 100 seat short haul flying. Theres an army of furloughed and forgotten employees, who are as if not more qualified than you, more productive, lower paid, more flexible and much better marketing than you. And if you think the concessions you've taken are bad, the MAA contract would make your head spin.

So unless you are so senior that you flew your first flight with Orville and Wright,
you need to be concerned who flies that plane.