Don't Let Express Fly The 190's
- Thread starter boeing787
- Start date
Furloughedagain
Senior
What if there were no "express pilots" but rather just pilots?
We all played right into their hands and allowed the whipsaw to occur not only between mainline and express but between each of 11 express carriers! All are involved in a race to the bottom that WE CREATED.
The only way out is a single seniority list. The question is, what are we (airline pilots in general) willing to pay for it? The fix for the "Express" debacle will be the most expensive (in terms of negotiating capital) campaign ever embarked upon by ALPA -- but its the right thing to do.
These aren't Beech 99s anymore folks. They're airliners flown by airline pilots.
The longer we choose to divide ourselves the more power we give to management.
We all played right into their hands and allowed the whipsaw to occur not only between mainline and express but between each of 11 express carriers! All are involved in a race to the bottom that WE CREATED.
The only way out is a single seniority list. The question is, what are we (airline pilots in general) willing to pay for it? The fix for the "Express" debacle will be the most expensive (in terms of negotiating capital) campaign ever embarked upon by ALPA -- but its the right thing to do.
These aren't Beech 99s anymore folks. They're airliners flown by airline pilots.
The longer we choose to divide ourselves the more power we give to management.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
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I could not agree more. Most have accepted the 50 seaters as Express, but pushing that limit into the 70-90 seat range is not in anyones best interest. As we saw in the last Company proposal, they wanted to push Express up to the 106 seat limit. Express is not really Express anymore, it has just become a loophole to LOW wages. ALPA continues to permit this to happen, more and more with each T/A they accept. I don't think that passengers are paying less to fly on Express A/C, are they? At this rate you will see 737-200's and F-100's operating under the Express banner in the near future.
What difference does it make?
Even if there was no 'express pilot' and 'mainline pilot' classification, you'd still have the payscale differences. If US mainline had never had express operators(Mesa, Allegheny, etc.) and assumed those operations themselves, how would things be any different? You'd still have the furloughs, you'd still have pilots being 'demoted' from Boeings and Airbuses down to EMBs and CRJs.
The express carriers are paying what they can afford, given the pricing power (or lack thereof) that their partner airlines have. To see them start flying 90 seat aircraft is unprecedented, but yet another reality of the market. I doubt we'll see those EMB190's going into small markets like LNS, MDT, DUJ, etc. though. I'm thinking they'll be more of the medium cities like IND, GSO, RDU, etc. This is where the F100s and 732s flew at one point or another.
Even if there was no 'express pilot' and 'mainline pilot' classification, you'd still have the payscale differences. If US mainline had never had express operators(Mesa, Allegheny, etc.) and assumed those operations themselves, how would things be any different? You'd still have the furloughs, you'd still have pilots being 'demoted' from Boeings and Airbuses down to EMBs and CRJs.
The express carriers are paying what they can afford, given the pricing power (or lack thereof) that their partner airlines have. To see them start flying 90 seat aircraft is unprecedented, but yet another reality of the market. I doubt we'll see those EMB190's going into small markets like LNS, MDT, DUJ, etc. though. I'm thinking they'll be more of the medium cities like IND, GSO, RDU, etc. This is where the F100s and 732s flew at one point or another.
smfav8r said:Shouldn't have let Express fly the CRJ/ERJ either.....but DALPA solds us all down the river a long time ago......Regional airlines flying coast to coast....what's next E330ER.....widebodies flying across the pond for express rates!!!!
[post="186445"][/post]
It's only a matter of time until some low cost/low price carrier starts flying transatlantic.
Jay
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
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JayBrian said:
Right: US Airways
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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RowUnderDCA said:
Nope. US may become an "LLCC"--Low Labor Cost Carrier, but you cannot call it an LCC in good faith, since CCY has done zip to reduce nonlabor costs since the first bankruptcy...j
the turtle
Advanced
- Mar 7, 2003
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No express carrier should fly anything greater than 50 seats...PERIOD.
In many ways ALPA has created this mess as discussed ad naseum on these boards.....
I wish I had my 1900 back!
In many ways ALPA has created this mess as discussed ad naseum on these boards.....
I wish I had my 1900 back!
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
It makes no difference what Airline we work for, as the "Expressing" of the Industry is hurting employees at most of them. Having a Pilots payscale based on equipment size is nothing new to the industry. Paying C/S, FSA, and MTC 1/2 the rate to handle an A/C that has 10-20 seat less than a Mainline A/C is. Why are C/S and FSA agents that handle a 70-90 seat A/C worth anywhere from $7-$10 an hour less than a person working a 737 0r 319/320? For many years, Express A/C were 19-40 seats, and that was acceptable. Even though JB and SWA will add
170-190 type A/C to their fleets, I doubt you will see them pay Express rates to the ground crews and MTC than handle them. The Pilot rate of pay will be the only thing that is different, but this has always been in place with the pilot groups.
170-190 type A/C to their fleets, I doubt you will see them pay Express rates to the ground crews and MTC than handle them. The Pilot rate of pay will be the only thing that is different, but this has always been in place with the pilot groups.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #15
Hey pal just set a precedent and let express fly the 190's. Don't you learn? DALPA laughed when the 50 seater came out. They ain't now. IF the 190's go to express noone at the majors flying a 737, DC9 or Airbus is safe from being outsourced by low paying jobs with lousy benefits. Here at UAL we still have some limits on the size of aircraft express can fly. I'm sure we'd fight till the doors closed that noone except mainline will fly that aircraft. Just ask the NWA pilots. THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE!!!! You express pilots...I flew turbo props in my day and understood the industry. Now you should too. For those of you who had dreams of flying the heavies....you will never have a shot for decades if the industry goes this way. IF you want to fly 8 legs a day in a barbie jet well that's your choice too.
