DL announcing raises, changes to Profit Sharing

[topDawg]

You either don't read or don't comprehend the things Kev writes and comments on about the company he works for.
 

agreed completely. 
 
what an amazingly stupid comment to make. 

 

[WeAAsles]

call it 6% plus the 3(wasn't it three) in April thats 9%+1% in one year. 
Can you give me a list of other airline employee groups that have done better or the same? 
 

Can we compare my career starting from May 10, 1995 in ACS (Fleet) with those of all my counterparts over that 20 year period? Delta, Continental, TWA, NWA, UAL, US, SWA (I won't count LCC's because I know I have all of them beat)

Out of that group over that time frame who would you say has received the most in pay and benefits in your opinion? From the time DL declared BK to today, how long do you think it took my counterpart to bypass me?

My counterpart today, right now at DL I congratulate him. What he's going to get on Dec 1 in wages is going to blow me completely out of the water compared to what I make right now. Congratulations and kudo's. Well earned and deserved. (Not counting those medical and prescription deductibles)

Seriously and I don't care if you hate our Unions over here or not. Do you really think I'm going to be behind him for long? And no matter what I still have the one thing over him that has to count for something in your mind. An employment contract. 

 

[700UW]

So does the Ready Reserve get a 14.5% raise and reduced PS?

 

[townpete]

 
 

You either don't read or don't comprehend the things Kev writes and comments on about the company he works for.

For the most part I see a man who is proud of the company he works for and that it's doing well. But as an individual who has to sustain a living he would like SECURITY. Security that the things he's given through his hard work won't one day be taken away from him arbitrarily.

Forgetting the Union ideology that you obviously hate. What is wrong with trying to gain security for ones profession? Do you begrudge others who have a signed employment contract to protect the services they provide?

If Kev and others were able to hire an individual attorney to negotiate their work terms, would you have a problem with that?

 

 
Guess again buttercup.
 
EXHIBIT A:
 

I've done the math- it's still not a bad deal, IMO. The PS is still healthy, and at the rate we're performing, even at a lower rate, it'll be substantial. This'll also keep people "invested" (sorry) in running a great operation to either maximize the 10% payout, or eclipse the previous year's total to cross the 20% threshold. Having more in my check each week will if nothing else, feel like less of a tax bite, even if ultimately it may not be. Larger 401k match is good; would've liked to have seen a larger fixed contribution instead.

My concern is that there is nothing saying all this can't be taken away w/o recourse. Larger than that is the concern that these improvements will be funded by either further vendoring or wholesale outsourcing of some domestic stations.

Save what you can indeed...

 
Takes a great work improvement and spins into the "omg omg omg the sky is falling, watch out gahhhhhh."
 
 
Some people are only happy when their miserable apparently.
 

 

[700UW]

Because they lived it, with Leadership 7.5 and Chapter 11.
 
http://player.piksel.com/player.php?video_uuid=ng9759hg

 

[topDawg]

Can we compare my career starting from May 10, 1995 in ACS (Fleet) with those of all my counterparts over that 20 year period? Delta, Continental, TWA, NWA, UAL, US, SWA (I won't count LCC's because I know I have all of them beat)

Out of that group over that time frame who would you say has received the most in pay and benefits in your opinion? From the time DL declared BK to today, how long do you think it took my counterpart to bypass me?

My counterpart today, right now at DL I congratulate him. What he's going to get on Dec 1 in wages is going to blow me completely out of the water compared to what I make right now. Congratulations and kudo's. Well earned and deserved. (Not counting those medical and prescription deductibles)

Seriously and I don't care if you hate our Unions over here or not. Do you really think I'm going to be behind him for long? And no matter what I still have the one thing over him that has to count for something in your mind. An employment contract. 

Well my craft at your company is ~20K-30K yearly behind me. 
 
If (and that is a big if) Parker bumps them up to my level then very small chance they don't take some concessions (and probably jobs) to go along with it.
 
Of course the IAM/TWU would have to actually start negotiations for that to happen.
 
and chances are if they match or go a little above DL will roll out another raise to match or go just over like they did with the FAs.  
 
 
So ummm....... can I get you to explain exactly why I need to be upset about this again? Okay you have a contract, I see the benefit of having a contract in general but having your airlines contract completely sucks for me at this time. Yeah I "could" be unemployed tomorrow, but as I have said before I don't see Delta saying good bye to 600-700M in extra revenue. JMO.  
 

So does the Ready Reserve get a 14.5% raise and reduced PS?

highly unlikely on the raise part. 
 
Profit sharing will be the same for everyone minus the pilots and I fully expect the company to end up with the same PS plan across the board again. (might change the non-union plan if they can't get the pilots to agree to our new plan.) 

 

[topDawg]

Because they lived it, with Leadership 7.5 and Chapter 11.
 
http://player.piksel.com/player.php?video_uuid=ng9759hg

well technically Kev wasn't here for the joys of 7.5 (but I'm sure he had plenty of his own out of BK fun "we need your help for our bad management" times at NW as well) 
 
but agree. Always smart to understand it can all be gone tomorrow. Risk vs reward I guess. 

 

[townpete]

I've done the math- it's still not a bad deal, IMO. The PS is still healthy, and at the rate we're performing, even at a lower rate, it'll be substantial. This'll also keep people "invested" (sorry) in running a great operation to either maximize the 10% payout, or eclipse the previous year's total to cross the 20% threshold. Having more in my check each week will if nothing else, feel like less of a tax bite, even if ultimately it may not be. Larger 401k match is good; would've liked to have seen a larger fixed contribution instead.

My concern is that there is nothing saying all this can't be taken away w/o recourse. Larger than that is the concern that these improvements will be funded by either further vendoring or wholesale outsourcing of some domestic stations.

Save what you can indeed...

 
You can always go to HR and say you would rather forgo the improvements, raise, etc and wait for a contract.
 
 

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
 
 
 
Guess again buttercup.
 
EXHIBIT A:
 
 
Takes a great work improvement and spins into the "omg omg omg the sky is falling, watch out gahhhhhh."
 
 
Some people are only happy when their miserable apparently.
 
 

Because it's been happening in his group and you know it. Why shouldn't he be very concerned when he lives right in the middle of it?

You have no concern about it because it doesn't affect you. As a matter of fact I'm sure you think Kev is overpaid anyway. No problem if they keep cutting from his group because maybe those extra profits can roll over into your account I'm sure.

Maybe ACS is not a skilled trade that you have to go to school for. But why would you want to see probably decent people who just want to support a family like yourself "Maybe" be harmed?

 

[WeAAsles]

Well my craft at your company is ~20K-30K yearly behind me. 
 
If (and that is a big if) Parker bumps them up to my level then very small chance they don't take some concessions (and probably jobs) to go along with it.
 
Of course the IAM/TWU would have to actually start negotiations for that to happen.
 
and chances are if they match or go a little above DL will roll out another raise to match or go just over like they did with the FAs.  
 
 
So ummm....... can I get you to explain exactly why I need to be upset about this again? Okay you have a contract, I see the benefit of having a contract in general but having your airlines contract completely sucks for me at this time. Yeah I "could" be unemployed tomorrow, but as I have said before I don't see Delta saying good bye to 600-700M in extra revenue. JMO.  

I'm not speaking for your group at either airline. Yes sure absolutely, if the TWU and those who negotiated things a long time ago had contracted out OH then the line guys would be making far more than they currently do. The guys working in high COL areas also should have been given a premium over TUL. I'm totally on their side on that one.

I'm not going to give my opinion if OH should have been kicked to the curb or not? That's not my call to make since I'm not an aircraft mechanic.

 

[townpete]

Because it's been happening in his group and you know it. Why shouldn't he be very concerned when he lives right in the middle of it?

You have no concern about it because it doesn't affect you. As a matter of fact I'm sure you think Kev is overpaid anyway. No problem if they keep cutting from his group because maybe those extra profits can roll over into your account I'm sure.

Maybe ACS is not a skilled trade that you have to go to school for. But why would you want to see probably decent people who just want to support a family like yourself "Maybe" be harmed?

 
How was he harmed by a raise?
 
Please explain that one lol

 

[topDawg]

I'm not speaking for your group at either airline. Yes sure absolutely, if the TWU and those who negotiated things a long time ago had contracted out OH then the line guys would be making far more than they currently do. The guys working in high COL areas also should have been given a premium over TUL. I'm totally on their side on that one.

I'm not going to give my opinion if OH should have been kicked to the curb or not? That's not my call to make since I'm not an aircraft mechanic.

weak excuse. Delta is very close to AA is outsourcing %. We may not do airframe overhauls in house but we do a lot of other work that AA clearly doesn't do. 
 
I'd agree completely if this was like FX who only has a few thousand mechanics and sends a ton of its work out, but AA does something like 3% more work in-house than Delta. 
 
And since you are a big trade union person, then you can explain why a half of your new union (IAM) outsources 20%+ more than Delta and has the lowest paid mechanics over at US right? 

 

[WeAAsles]

How was he harmed by a raise?
 
Please explain that one lol

C'mon man let's stop playing around here. You know it's a lot easier for the airline to get rid of him and replace him than it is for you. I congratulate the raise for everyone at DL. I think it's fantastic.

But we are trying to tell you that in ACS they're being weeded out. The higher cost people are being replaced by RR all over the place. If I were Kev being honest I'd be scared chitless too and want protection of some type of real value.

What difference is it how much I make if I have to walk around feeling like I have a target on my back because I know I'm easily replaceable?

What if that raise wound up really just being temporary until I have to go stand on the unemployment line?

Do you give a damn about that at all. Please be honest.

 

[WeAAsles]

weak excuse. Delta is very close to AA is outsourcing %. We may not do airframe overhauls in house but we do a lot of other work that AA clearly doesn't do. 
 
I'd agree completely if this was like FX who only has a few thousand mechanics and sends a ton of its work out, but AA does something like 3% more work in-house than Delta. 
 
And since you are a big trade union person, then you can explain why a half of your new union (IAM) outsources 20%+ more than Delta and has the lowest paid mechanics over at US right?

I am NOT a mechanic and this thread says nothing about that class and craft.

Start a new thread dedicated to mechanics or join in on the many conversations over on the AA boards about it.

I have NOT been talking about Maintenance.

 

[townpete]

What if all that paranoia is all in your head?

What if....
What if....
What if....

All I know what is.....14.5%