allstrike
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- Oct 12, 2005
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Thanks again 700,for keeping us updated with these.Looks like there on track.Man they have great writers.
District 142 Negotiations Update
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Dio,
When the districts split 141M and 141 assets were split, 141M had to sell the building to pay 141 their share of the money.
And I guess you forgot it was OUR Dues Money that paid for your organizing drive and your negotiation expenses up until the districts were split.
The only reason the districts were split is because the IAM was trying to fight off an AMFA raid at NW and the same was occuring at UA and US The M&R membership VOTED to split the District, I for one voted against it. The Districts were not split until after your first TA which was rejected, you were organized in 1995 and I believe the split occured in 1999. That is a four year time span of being in the same district
When UAL M&R went AMFA, 141M could not self-sustain themselves and we were folded into 142.
Let me explain this one more time since I was at negotiations and you were not.
Fleet had THEIR OWN NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE, all made up for members from DL 141 and US Airways Fleet Service Members, Tom Brickner was the GLR a UA employee and Canale as he is DL 141 President.
M&R had their OWN NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE made up of 142 Members all from US except the GLR and PDGC both former TWA employees.
The two committees did not negotiate together, they negotiated each on their own and not all the same Executives from US were on the company's team.
As a matter of fact the Fleet Committee met more at their hotel than at CCY, M&R on the other hand spent 99% of our time at CCY and only had two breakout days at our Hotel and Fleet and M&R did not even stay at the same hotel. The only person who had contact with both committees was Tom Regan dealing with the pension, retiree and medical issues.
Judge Mitchell abrogated both CBAs, the company presented final offers to each group, the company wrote it, not the IAM, but there was some tweaking of the offer before it was presented to the membership for radification.
Each employee group had their target and US in their final offer reached how they wanted too.
The M&R Committee NEVER saw your final offer and had NO INPUT in regard to Fleet what so ever.
I do not know why you continue with your rant about it, two seperate districts, two seperate Negotiating Committees who had nothing to do with each other.
I know because I was there, and your fleet committee could have reached a deal with the company you can blame the PHL Contingent for that mess, as they would not give up catering and have all of them absorbed to the ramp. And this was told to me by several non-PHL members of the Fleet Committee.
I hope this enlightens you and clears things up.
When the districts split 141M and 141 assets were split, 141M had to sell the building to pay 141 their share of the money.
And I guess you forgot it was OUR Dues Money that paid for your organizing drive and your negotiation expenses up until the districts were split.
The only reason the districts were split is because the IAM was trying to fight off an AMFA raid at NW and the same was occuring at UA and US The M&R membership VOTED to split the District, I for one voted against it. The Districts were not split until after your first TA which was rejected, you were organized in 1995 and I believe the split occured in 1999. That is a four year time span of being in the same district
When UAL M&R went AMFA, 141M could not self-sustain themselves and we were folded into 142.
Let me explain this one more time since I was at negotiations and you were not.
Fleet had THEIR OWN NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE, all made up for members from DL 141 and US Airways Fleet Service Members, Tom Brickner was the GLR a UA employee and Canale as he is DL 141 President.
M&R had their OWN NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE made up of 142 Members all from US except the GLR and PDGC both former TWA employees.
The two committees did not negotiate together, they negotiated each on their own and not all the same Executives from US were on the company's team.
As a matter of fact the Fleet Committee met more at their hotel than at CCY, M&R on the other hand spent 99% of our time at CCY and only had two breakout days at our Hotel and Fleet and M&R did not even stay at the same hotel. The only person who had contact with both committees was Tom Regan dealing with the pension, retiree and medical issues.
Judge Mitchell abrogated both CBAs, the company presented final offers to each group, the company wrote it, not the IAM, but there was some tweaking of the offer before it was presented to the membership for radification.
Each employee group had their target and US in their final offer reached how they wanted too.
The M&R Committee NEVER saw your final offer and had NO INPUT in regard to Fleet what so ever.
I do not know why you continue with your rant about it, two seperate districts, two seperate Negotiating Committees who had nothing to do with each other.
I know because I was there, and your fleet committee could have reached a deal with the company you can blame the PHL Contingent for that mess, as they would not give up catering and have all of them absorbed to the ramp. And this was told to me by several non-PHL members of the Fleet Committee.
I hope this enlightens you and clears things up.
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
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Well it rained alot,why do you askHow did things go in the east last night?.......as far as mtx is concerned.h34r:
.Were there alot of acft out of service this morning? If you have to ask why, then,nevermind. :angry:Well it rained alot,why do you ask
Two different districts and NC's don't mean squat. They are all coordinated at a higher level, and there is NO WAY HQ was going to let fleet have parity with mech. HQ was afraid mechs would bolt to AMFA so they they had to keep fleet down.
Out of one side of their mouth, IAM says mechs were organized longer than fleet and that's why they have better language. Out of the other side, IAM said strength in numbers. Which was it?
Nobody says fleet should make the same $$ that mechs do. I say fleet should get the same basic protections mechs do. Is IAM too inept to negotiate that? They said they could do it, but the 60 day rule indicates otherwise.
Now let's talk NC's. Take a look at fleet AGC's - the majority of them couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper sack, and there are only a couple I might let walk my dog. Considering they were going up against Crellin and Glass, what credentials do they have?
So the options are:
1.IAM let fleet AGC's negotiate whatever popped into their minds (nobody believes that), or
2. The fleet NC relied on the same lawyers that the mech NC did. The same lawyers that didn't want to take answers from the floor during the initial contract or the BK talks. Lawyers that don't answer to the NC, but to HQ.
Out of one side of their mouth, IAM says mechs were organized longer than fleet and that's why they have better language. Out of the other side, IAM said strength in numbers. Which was it?
Nobody says fleet should make the same $$ that mechs do. I say fleet should get the same basic protections mechs do. Is IAM too inept to negotiate that? They said they could do it, but the 60 day rule indicates otherwise.
Now let's talk NC's. Take a look at fleet AGC's - the majority of them couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper sack, and there are only a couple I might let walk my dog. Considering they were going up against Crellin and Glass, what credentials do they have?
So the options are:
1.IAM let fleet AGC's negotiate whatever popped into their minds (nobody believes that), or
2. The fleet NC relied on the same lawyers that the mech NC did. The same lawyers that didn't want to take answers from the floor during the initial contract or the BK talks. Lawyers that don't answer to the NC, but to HQ.
Probably not as many as their will be when the east switches the 737 and the narrow bodied Airbuses from merlin to sceptre. Let the mechanic fun begin!!
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- #39
Wrong again DIO.
It took 50 years to achieve what we had, you wont get that overnight in any industry in negotiations.
And 141 used Bob Bush, 142 did not, we used Joe Garrelli out of DC for negotiations.
The same lawyer and law firm was used in bankruptcy court to represent the IAM, Sharon Levine, and at our M&R meetings she answered everything asked of her. Sharon is great, but when you come to the bk court, you are not in a postion of power. If you don't believe me about Sharon, then go ask Pitbull, she had s few dealings and saw Sharon in action in court day after day.
Once again you post wrong information.
The AMFA threat was dead way before bankruptcy #2.
It took 50 years to achieve what we had, you wont get that overnight in any industry in negotiations.
And 141 used Bob Bush, 142 did not, we used Joe Garrelli out of DC for negotiations.
The same lawyer and law firm was used in bankruptcy court to represent the IAM, Sharon Levine, and at our M&R meetings she answered everything asked of her. Sharon is great, but when you come to the bk court, you are not in a postion of power. If you don't believe me about Sharon, then go ask Pitbull, she had s few dealings and saw Sharon in action in court day after day.
Once again you post wrong information.
The AMFA threat was dead way before bankruptcy #2.
And we are all on the same level playing field NOW AFA CWA IAM TWU ALPA asking for the same % of raise same pensions increases same benefits increases. It all comes down to solidarity negotiating power and union leadership. And the AMFA threat still exist
If your statement "It took 50 years to achieve what we had, you wont get that overnight in any industry in negotiations." is indeed IAM policy, then they misrepresented themselves during the election. IAM told one and all there was "strength in numbers." Your statement and the campaign slogan is diametrically opposed.
Your statement means fleet was on there own from the jump, and should not count on mechs for any support. That fleet should not count on any of the mech contract language migrating to the fleet contract. Question: If that is the case, why should fleet accept second-class citizenship at IAM? Customer service agents were CWA's sole focus and as a result, c/s agents fared better. In the stations IAM allowed to be outsourced, CWA agents are still under a CWA contract.
The IAM campaign statement fooled enough people to believe mechs would support fleet, and that some of the language - scope, benefits, etc.- would migrate over to fleet.
Now let's look at reality. The reality is, where fleet language mirrored mechs, the company interpreted it to a lower standard and IAM let them get away with it. Yes, it was grieved, and as usual, died at step III. An e-board I'm familiar with, mechanics all, were amazed and ultimately disgusted by the one language/two standards routine.
There has been and is a dichotomy between what IAM says and what IAM does. Don't blame me for pointing to the scoreboard.
Sharon Levine? The same lady who sold the miraculous 1113 letters like prayer cloths? Hah! I don't think even you believe IAM would have let her take the stage if she weren't going to say exactly what they wanted her to - which was, don't strike, take the 1113 deal.
Your statement means fleet was on there own from the jump, and should not count on mechs for any support. That fleet should not count on any of the mech contract language migrating to the fleet contract. Question: If that is the case, why should fleet accept second-class citizenship at IAM? Customer service agents were CWA's sole focus and as a result, c/s agents fared better. In the stations IAM allowed to be outsourced, CWA agents are still under a CWA contract.
The IAM campaign statement fooled enough people to believe mechs would support fleet, and that some of the language - scope, benefits, etc.- would migrate over to fleet.
Now let's look at reality. The reality is, where fleet language mirrored mechs, the company interpreted it to a lower standard and IAM let them get away with it. Yes, it was grieved, and as usual, died at step III. An e-board I'm familiar with, mechanics all, were amazed and ultimately disgusted by the one language/two standards routine.
There has been and is a dichotomy between what IAM says and what IAM does. Don't blame me for pointing to the scoreboard.
Sharon Levine? The same lady who sold the miraculous 1113 letters like prayer cloths? Hah! I don't think even you believe IAM would have let her take the stage if she weren't going to say exactly what they wanted her to - which was, don't strike, take the 1113 deal.
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There are strength in numbers but no union can get you everything another group has since they had over 50 years of negotiating and giving and taking and even a strike.
I guess you forgot about how CWA agreed to outsource 50% of reservations.
Well here is a case in point AMFA went on strike at NWA and lost it all, now they finally concieted and lost the majority of the jobs to scabs and vendors, so who faired better? And the AMTs who were scabs at NW dont even have to join AMFA to remain employed.
So in reality AFMA lost more than the IAM did, in a similar situation.
Seems to me you want everything the mechancis have and have gotten since negotiations from 1949, I hate to tell you this but that does not happen in the real world.
You can run an airline with out rampers, you can outsource heavy mtc, but you will always need line maintenance to keep an airline flying.
Look at what Alaska did at SEA, their largest hub, laidoff all the ramp and outsourced, bottom line it is suppy and demand.
And once again your fellow IAM Ramp Brothers and Sisters, ratified every concession ever set in front of them.
Can't change history.
I guess you forgot about how CWA agreed to outsource 50% of reservations.
Well here is a case in point AMFA went on strike at NWA and lost it all, now they finally concieted and lost the majority of the jobs to scabs and vendors, so who faired better? And the AMTs who were scabs at NW dont even have to join AMFA to remain employed.
So in reality AFMA lost more than the IAM did, in a similar situation.
Seems to me you want everything the mechancis have and have gotten since negotiations from 1949, I hate to tell you this but that does not happen in the real world.
You can run an airline with out rampers, you can outsource heavy mtc, but you will always need line maintenance to keep an airline flying.
Look at what Alaska did at SEA, their largest hub, laidoff all the ramp and outsourced, bottom line it is suppy and demand.
And once again your fellow IAM Ramp Brothers and Sisters, ratified every concession ever set in front of them.
Can't change history.
"Seems to me you want everything the mechancis have and have gotten since negotiations from 1949, I hate to tell you this but that does not happen in the real world."
That ain't what IAM said from 1993-1995.
The international, the district, the lodges and the individual reps all preached strength in numbers. They probably would not have gotten elected if they had told the truth you are admitting to (maybe we could have voted twice).
I can think of no better example of saying one thing and doing another.
Thank you, 700, for confirming my IAM hypothesis.
That ain't what IAM said from 1993-1995.
The international, the district, the lodges and the individual reps all preached strength in numbers. They probably would not have gotten elected if they had told the truth you are admitting to (maybe we could have voted twice).
I can think of no better example of saying one thing and doing another.
Thank you, 700, for confirming my IAM hypothesis.
Doug Parker has stated that he wants to stop all outsourcing of reservations because of the major problems with it.And more and more are coming back in-house But fact remains that during bankruptcy Glass was hell bent on outsourcing jobs pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, agents, rampers, utility.NO BODY WAS IMMUNE
It took 50 years to get bought out by a smaller regional airline!!!!!!!!!!!
( what's with the ME ME ME ME ME ME all of the time and dropping names???)
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