Delta reports record profit for Q4

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not sure why seniority lists of ACS employees would not be available but there are for other workgroups either....
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Keep in mind, though, that DL doesn't make HR policies such as vacation/sick time for any one group - they are for ALL non-contract group and in some cases the pilots and non-contract policies are even more similar than they are at other airlines.
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Therefore, I would encourage you to use the data you do have... and if you still have PMNW data, it is probably a reasonably decent snapshot of what DL had at the time - or at the very least you can note what PMNW looked like and they are now a part of all of DL ACS.
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DL is supposedly on the verge of another round of early retirement packages - perhaps w/ some incentives that haven't been seen for a while. If so, I think it makes it clear that part of DL's desire is to incentivize senior workers to leave the company before they reach full retirement age... that was one of the philosophies that Song tried and many people switched over from mainline under those rules - even though they later came back when DL closed Song.
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While employees are topped out far earlier than 20 years, health care costs do start escalating - and we have already noted that health care costs are rapidly rising. Perhaps part of DL's desire to contain costs is not only to be able to replace older workers with new hires that are lower on the scale but also limit health care costs that come with older workers.
While some may find that objectionable, it is legitimate as long as senior people are not forced to leave and as long as they are not harassed if they stay.
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It's also worth noting that DL's last early out package before the NW merger yielded about twice the number of people than what they got last year.... and reducing headcount voluntarily provides the flexibility that DL might need in the event it chooses to participate in industry consolidation.

 

[tom barry]

Looks like the only way to have this "thing" work out good for the ramp employees is to have DL buy AA(and whatever amount of workers come with the deal) ,......then combine them with the RED TAILS, then petition for a new Union election to finally get the Ramp unionized, the the vacation situation(anyway) will get BETTER ! INSTANTLY !!

 

[topDawg]

Looks like the only way to have this "thing" work out good for the ramp employees is to have DL buy AA(and whatever amount of workers come with the deal) ,......then combine them with the RED TAILS, then petition for a new Union election to finally get the Ramp unionized, the the vacation situation(anyway) will get BETTER ! INSTANTLY !!

er.... so pretty much it would be good for the Delta (both north and south) to work under a BK contract.

You have way to much faith in union (and for some odd reason the TWU)

Oh and I'm not sure but didn't NW have more rampers than Delta? I know they have a bunch more stations.

 

[topDawg]

I'm not sure why seniority lists of ACS employees would not be available but there are for other workgroups either....
.Delta IT sucks? not even joking. That or they know everyone will s**t a brick when they find out 60-70% of ACS is RR and most wont have the chance to go full time.
Keep in mind, though, that DL doesn't make HR policies such as vacation/sick time for any one group - they are for ALL non-contract group and in some cases the pilots and non-contract policies are even more similar than they are at other airlines.
.most companys do that when unions aren't around. Good way to get a union is to treat some employees better than others (IE giving TechOps a 5th week but not the ramp because the ramp doesn't have the money) Also it makes it much easier for Delta to get the non-union side to hate the union side. With DALPA going into contract time i can't wait to hear about how those a** hole pilots are wanting to better their QOL of life. Thus we should all hate them and all of Delta problems are because of the pilots. I'm sure Richard has been in talks with Ron, Leo and Ed for the playbook. *sigh* so predicable
Therefore, I would encourage you to use the data you do have... and if you still have PMNW data, it is probably a reasonably decent snapshot of what DL had at the time - or at the very least you can note what PMNW looked like and they are now a part of all of DL ACS.
.Delta is good about posting the benefits of our peers (well some of them, if it makes Delta look really, really bad then they aren't a peer. Like WN)
DL is supposedly on the verge of another round of early retirement packages - perhaps w/ some incentives that haven't been seen for a while. If so, I think it makes it clear that part of DL's desire is to incentivize senior workers to leave the company before they reach full retirement age... that was one of the philosophies that Song tried and many people switched over from mainline under those rules - even though they later came back when DL closed Song.
.yeah rumor has it this one will have health care.
While employees are topped out far earlier than 20 years, health care costs do start escalating - and we have already noted that health care costs are rapidly rising. Perhaps part of DL's desire to contain costs is not only to be able to replace older workers with new hires that are lower on the scale but also limit health care costs that come with older workers.
While some may find that objectionable, it is legitimate as long as senior people are not forced to leave and as long as they are not harassed if they stay.
.They have no reason to leave....most 401Ks became crap and...yeah we don't have a pension. :angry:
It's also worth noting that DL's last early out package before the NW merger yielded about twice the number of people than what they got last year.... and reducing headcount voluntarily provides the flexibility that DL might need in the event it chooses to participate in industry consolidation.two things, most major front line areas will have to hire if people leave. I have heard that once the early out post that a big hiring push is going to be right behind it. Woohoo more people junior Also Consolidation IMO isn't a if. Delta doesn't want to grow on it own, but Delta isn't overstaffed, just old.

Also its section 6 time for pilots, Delta has to make it look like Delta is about to go back into BK. I just hope the always worthless ALPA actually does something for its DELTA members, but I'm counting on Delta scaring them into a sh**ty contract(again)

 

[WorldTraveler]

Given that there is very little evidence that unions have prevented airlines from making cuts in BK, let alone been successful in recouping what was lost, I'm not sure that expecting a merger with any other airline will solve that problem, esp. since I believe AA has proposed vacation cuts as part of its POR.
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I don't think the problem is IT at all.... your point about the percentage of RR's is probably part of it - although 60-70% is probably high. I know the whole RR topic is contentious but let's keep in mind that DL has had a lot higher percentage of part time and seasonal workers than other airlines for years. I know people who worked for DL during college and had great experiences - but went on to do other things in life. Now one of them is a Diamond Medallion and is on DL aircraft several times every week. DL's pass benefit program also allows many young people to see the world for a couple years and then hang it up; compared with many other college jobs, DL is not any worse and in many cases better with the flight benefits and the flexibility of hours. It's all in expectations. But there is also an element of protecting those people who are still at DL from a previous era where people did start as a career - and in giving those people a decent livelihood. Top compensation? No. But a $40K/yr salary is right at the per capita average income in the US with benefits that are on par with most private employers.
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regarding peers... DL doesn't compare itself to most other non-network airlines... WN isn't the only one... and WN is the exception in its pay levels. But keep in mind that their CEO is now saying that WN can't continue to see labor costs escalate as their growth slows - which is happening because there are fewer and fewer places to grow. It sounds just like the problem the network airlines had in the late 90s... for them, it was 9/11 that stopped the growth process and turned it into massive cuts. WN has yet to show that it can deliver the financial results - and the pay levels - current and growth - under a new nationwide network....remember that WN is integrating FL over a period of several years - and pushing FL people down the seniority list in the process. Delta never required any employees from mergers (not asset acquisitions) to be subjected to a multi-year, delayed integration process largely because DL based those mergers on significant revenue increases which did in fact occur.
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DL very well may hire a bunch of new people to take the place of older workers - but it also might do that to provide staffing until they can participate in further consolidation. And even if they don't consolidate, they will reduce costs.
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I still have a hard time seeing that DL is doing anything wrong if they can incentivize people to leave in order to lower their costs vs. another round of forced cuts and layoffs.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not sure why seniority lists of ACS employees would not be available but there are for other workgroups either....

Too easy not to, I guess, and maybe no one on the DL side ever cared before? To me, it runs head on against their so-called "transparency" and "direct communication." Same thing with bid awards; at NW, we could see any award at any time online. Now they're like a state secret.

Keep in mind, though, that DL doesn't make HR policies such as vacation/sick time for any one group

Sure they do. IFS has their own, as do the pilots.

Therefore, I would encourage you to use the data you do have... and if you still have PMNW data, it is probably a reasonably decent snapshot of what DL had at the time - or at the very least you can note what PMNW looked like and they are now a part of all of DL ACS.

No you can't, actually. In many places the difference in overall seniority is huge- that's why the DL seniority committee originally advocated for "transitional seniority" in many places.

That's not really relevant, though; most people just want to know if they can hold a city or not, and should they be able to, what kind of line they could hold. NONE of that is available in a combined form.

er.... so pretty much it would be good for the Delta (both north and south) to work under a BK contract.

You have way to much faith in union (and for some odd reason the TWU)

Oh and I'm not sure but didn't NW have more rampers than Delta? I know they have a bunch more stations.

We had many more stations (40 to ~13), but were outnumbered about 1.5:1 by DL.

But there is also an element of protecting those people who are still at DL from a previous era where people did start as a career - and in giving those people a decent livelihood. Top compensation? No. But a $40K/yr salary is right at the per capita average income in the US with benefits that are on par with most private employers.

That element disappears more and more with each EO package, the fact that all new hiring-and most backfilling- is with RR's, and so on.

regarding peers... DL doesn't compare itself to most other non-network airlines...

Yes, they do. And when it doesn't fit their agenda, they purposely leave some out (ie AS & HA). When it does fit, they include them. As noted previously, they also do most of their comparisons at TOS, which is nice, except it omits that for many groups at the lower tiers, DL pays-and compensates- well below average.

 

[topDawg]

Given that there is very little evidence that unions have prevented airlines from making cuts in BK, let alone been successful in recouping what was lost, I'm not sure that expecting a merger with any other airline will solve that problem, esp. since I believe AA has proposed vacation cuts as part of its POR.I am pretty sure they will STILL have more. :angry:
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I don't think the problem is IT at all.... your point about the percentage of RR's is probably part of it - although 60-70% is probably high. one of the investor calls they were bragging (believe it was Ed...shocking) about it and I'm 99% sure the number was 60%+. I know the whole RR topic is contentious but let's keep in mind that DL has had a lot higher percentage of part time and seasonal workers than other airlines for years. I'm confused, so is RR better? If so you do know RR is pretty much a fancy same for part time I know people who worked for DL during college and had great experiences - but went on to do other things in life. Now one of them is a Diamond Medallion and is on DL aircraft several times every week. nothing wrong with RR if they don't abuse it, But not offering someone a full time job after say 2 years is BS DL's pass benefit program also allows many young people to see the world for a couple years and then hang it up; compared with many other college jobs, DL is not any worse and in many cases better with the flight benefits and the flexibility of hours. It's all in expectations. But there is also an element of protecting those people who are still at DL from a previous era where people did start as a career - and in giving those people a decent livelihood. Top compensation? No. But a $40K/yr salary is right at the per capita average income in the US with benefits that are on par with most private employers. yep don't care about anyone other than airlines. Don't care about AT&T, Ford, Coke, the restaurant down the street. Only airlines.
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regarding peers... DL doesn't compare itself to most other non-network airlines... WN isn't the only one... and WN is the exception in its pay levels. But keep in mind that their CEO is now saying that WN can't continue to see labor costs escalate as their growth slows WN is making money, no one gives a rats a** what he says. To many times has labor been told this only to see the CEO get a nice pay raise. No cuts till they are needed and EVERYONE takes cuts. - which is happening because there are fewer and fewer places to grow. It sounds just like the problem the network airlines had in the late 90s... for them, it was 9/11 that stopped the growth process and turned it into massive cuts. WN has yet to show that it can deliver the financial results - and the pay levels - current and growth - under a new nationwide network....remember that WN is integrating FL over a period of several years - and pushing FL people down the seniority list in the process. Delta never required any employees from mergers (not asset acquisitions) to be subjected to a multi-year, delayed integration process largely because DL based those mergers on significant revenue increases which did in fact occur. ugh. Delta has control, WN doesn't. All an airlines that is all union can do is try to make it move, like Delta giving DALPA a butt load of stock to keep the wheels moving.
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DL very well may hire a bunch of new people to take the place of older workers - but it also might do that to provide staffing until they can participate in further consolidation. And even if they don't consolidate, they will reduce costs.Then more work will be sent out. Most places are understaffed as is.
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I still have a hard time seeing that DL is doing anything wrong if they can incentivize people to leave in order to lower their costs vs. another round of forced cuts and layoffs. I don't think anyone has said it wrong. All i am saying is they aren't cutting because we are fat, they are cutting to get the top of the scales off.

 

[topDawg]

Too easy not to, I guess, and maybe no one on the DL side ever cared before? To me, it runs head on against their so-called "transparency" and "direct communication." Same thing with bid awards; at NW, we could see any award at any time online. Now they're like a state secret. I wouldn't be shocked to find most on the ramp don't give a crap. Delta ramp is turning into just another job, not a career, don't blame people though. Hard to live with the way Delta treats them.



Sure they do. IFS has their own, as do the pilots. this is true, but on the big stuff (health care/time off etc.) non-union is all in the same boat.



No you can't, actually. In many places the difference in overall seniority is huge- that's why the DL seniority committee originally advocated for "transitional seniority" in many places.

That's not really relevant, though; most people just want to know if they can hold a city or not, and should they be able to, what kind of line they could hold. NONE of that is available in a combined form.





We had many more stations (40 to ~13), but were outnumbered about 1.5:1 by DL. jeesh, that many people in ATL eh?




That element disappears more and more with each EO package, the fact that all new hiring-and most backfilling- is with RR's, and so on.I don't know if i have seen a full time ramp job posted in 15 years......



Yes, they do. And when it doesn't fit their agenda, they purposely leave some out (ie AS & HA). When it does fit, they include them. As noted previously, they also do most of their comparisons at TOS, which is nice, except it omits that for many groups at the lower tiers, DL pays-and compensates- well below average. Fed EX and UPS <_<

 

[WorldTraveler]

good conversation, gentlemen. Let us continue:

Kev, it probably is not a surprise to you that DL's bid process is not entirely seniority based. There is a performance component, even for scale positions since as we have discussed, DL does performance evaluations on all non-contract employees (don't know about pilots) and it is not a given that a scale employee can automatically bid into a position solely on the basis of seniority. That could be the reason the seniority list is not more visible but the same principle applies for other non-contract employees. I know that type of system is contrary to the way unionized airlines work but that is the way DL has done it for years. DL's system wasn't a surprise to anyone when they voted on representation.
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of course DL has different HR policies between ground personnel and crews based on the way they are paid and scheduled... but even FA policies are based on the same principles as ground personnel with adjustments for how FAs work relative to ground personnel.
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Ok... so if seniority is much higher among PMNW groups, then my question is why is that so. Perhaps alot more PMDL people took voluntary packages...perhaps DL's growth was more aggressive... but if so it says that DL did have mechanisms to voluntarily reduce higher seniority people and bring in young people - and that had a positive effect on DL's cost control efforts while letting people out who had had enough of the airline industry and had perks good enough for them to believe it wasn't worth sticking around.
If the next round of early out packages comes to pass as expected, perhaps it is an attempt to lower the seniority esp. on the PMNW side and to provide an opportunity for higher seniority PMNW people to leave..... obviously that has significant implications on bidding for those who remain but also on potential future unionization efforts as well.
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Yes, I have noted before that DL doesn't need to close small PMNW stations because they can bring in RRs.... 60-70% sounds high but if that is what DL execs said, then I certainly will believe you.
I don't think any of those RRs were ever promised that they would be converted to FT so no I don't think DL is doing anything wrong by not converting a certain amount by a certain point.
As a passenger I want qualified people doing the job and to be honest with you if 70% of the people are RRs in ACS (either AW, BW, or combined), then DL has some pretty well-trained people because I have had very few complaints about DL ACS over the past years... and that wasn't always the case.
While some may believe that a certain percentage of people should be FT, the metric for any cost in an industry, is how can it be done to acceptable levels for the lowest cost. I'm sorry if that sounds crass, but if DL can run its ACS operation with predominantly RR employees and do as well as they have, then that is a key reason why they can keep their costs down. And again, I am not seeing that they are pushing senior FT people out - they are being given opportunities to leave - and are apparently taking them.
I don't think DL wants ANY frontline employees to come in today expecting to stay for a 30 year career. But again the question remains whether that is necessary to do the job well. From every external metric, DL is running a very good operation and is improving on its performance vs. its peers - while apparently keeping costs competitive or better. Why would any company convert people to a higher paid job classification if they have people willing to do the job for the current pay and they are doing their job well?
That is just basic economics, friends.
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Tell me what non-network passengers carriers DL uses as part of its benchmark for salary and benefits compensation.
Tell me also where there are significant differences between TOS and entry level (or perhaps in between) for some of DL's competitors.
Again, remember, that wages are a market item.... if DL can get people to work at entry level jobs and do a decent job for relatively low pay, why should DL pay them more than other carriers.
While NYC is not a low cost city, remember that ATL, CVG, MEM, and SLC are relatively low cost cities and DTW has very high unemployment. If DL can't find people willing to work for the salaries they pay, they obviously will have to pay more even in cities like LAX.
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But don't underestimate the value that DL puts on FT experienced, senior employees to help keep the operation running well.... while some of you might not want to be viewed as such, it is precisely for your experience and ability to lead (both by example and in actual team settings) that DL is willing to pay you the wages they do.
Keep in mind also that many lower cost carriers.
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And you also have to ask how long other carriers that have much higher costs for ground personnel can compete against carriers that have lower ground costs - and remember that AA is going to extract alot of costs from its airport operations.
So, no, that doesn't mean that other carriers don't have control of their costs but when you have carriers like AA, DL, and US that have much lower bases for their airport costs, then other carriers will find it harder and harder to compete.
And business is about finding a competitive edge and maximizing it, regardless of whether it is lower costs or better ability to generate revenues... for now, DL is financially outperforming its peers because it is doing both.
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[tom barry]

Wow Dawg,.....(as KEV said) 1:5 to 1 and lost by only 500 votes.
Betcha I could have found 500 votes between "Good ol' boy " MEM, and some some Lazy bas-tards in DTW/MSP who probably are NOW wishing they mailed/sent thier ballots in !

In a Majority of cases, Given the choice of the Highest Priority being A. Worrying about thier CELL PHONE, or B. getting thier Vote in On Time, a Lot of the brethren will choose A. everytime !
(sadly).

But Hey, thats history now.

Add a hypo AA to the Mix,............VERY DIFFERENT RESULT !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[topDawg]

Wow Dawg,.....(as KEV said) 1:5 to 1 and lost by only 500 votes.
Betcha I could have found 500 votes between "Good ol' boy " MEM, and some some Lazy bas-tards in DTW/MSP who probably are NOW wishing they mailed/sent thier ballots in !

In a Majority of cases, Given the choice of the Highest Priority being A. Worrying about thier CELL PHONE, or B. getting thier Vote in On Time, a Lot of the brethren will choose A. everytime !
(sadly).

But Hey, thats history now.

Add a hypo AA to the Mix,............VERY DIFFERENT RESULT !!!!!!!!!!!!

Again cool story. I don't want a BK CBA. It does nothing for me, I'm all ready taking it(very hard) in the butt I don't need to get the fun of dealing with more cuts due to a BK judge. Lets wait to see if the TWU does anything worth a crap before we clam they are all holy. <_<

 

[Kev3188]

good conversation, gentlemen. Let us continue:

Kev, it probably is not a surprise to you that DL's bid process is not entirely seniority based.

Not a surprise in the least; just a disappointment, since I'm a fan of transparency, and accountability- 2 things the current system thwarts.

Ok... so if seniority is much higher among PMNW groups, then my question is why is that so. Perhaps alot more PMDL people took voluntary packages...perhaps DL's growth was more aggressive... but if so it says that DL did have mechanisms to voluntarily reduce higher seniority people and bring in young people - and that had a positive effect on DL's cost control efforts while letting people out who had had enough of the airline industry and had perks good enough for them to believe it wasn't worth sticking around.

Constant purging, and rampant outsourcing'll do that. So will things like 7.5...

If the next round of early out packages comes to pass as expected, perhaps it is an attempt to lower the seniority esp. on the PMNW side and to provide an opportunity for higher seniority PMNW people to leave..... obviously that has significant implications on bidding for those who remain but also on potential future unionization efforts as well.

The EO is (or has) already been offered for the NW side. It's one of the steps we need to take/consider as part of cutting over to the DL benefits on 5/1. There's a 73 pt. plan, and "one last shot" for those that want subsidized retiree medical. Nothing was on DLNet just now detail-wise, so maybe they'll be offering something similar to the DL peeps? Who knows?
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Yes, I have noted before that DL doesn't need to close small PMNW stations because they can bring in RRs.... 60-70% sounds high but if that is what DL execs said, then I certainly will believe you.

Dunno about 70%, but it wouldn't surprise me. In many stations it's already close to 50%. What I do know is that in DL's own words (or ex-vp Zupancic's, anyway), that the program has grown ~ 3 fold in the last few years.

I don't think any of those RRs were ever promised that they would be converted to FT so no I don't think DL is doing anything wrong by not converting a certain amount by a certain point.

Actually, many have been over promised and under delivered. On a systemwide note, they talk often about how "fast" you can convert, so it's certainly being implied, if nothing else.

As a passenger I want qualified people doing the job and to be honest with you if 70% of the people are RRs in ACS (either AW, BW, or combined), then DL has some pretty well-trained people because I have had very few complaints about DL ACS over the past years...

You've either dealt with experienced people or been lucky. The learning curve is still steep.

I don't think DL wants ANY frontline employees to come in today expecting to stay for a 30 year career.

...Which is a shame... The company that invests in it's people long-term usually sees a huge ROI...

Tell me what non-network passengers carriers DL uses as part of its benchmark for salary and benefits compensation.

B6 & FL for starters. You can use "non legacy" if you're feeling semantic-y...

 

[Kev3188]

Tell me also where there are significant differences between TOS and entry level (or perhaps in between) for some of DL's competitors.

Most everywhere, but I was thinking of IFS specifically when I wrote that. I know you know where to look for the info.

Again, remember, that wages are a market item.... if DL can get people to work at entry level jobs and do a decent job for relatively low pay, why should DL pay them more than other carriers.

See my above regarding investment. In the near term, it ideally would mean the difference between the "right" candidate, and the "right now" candidate.

But don't underestimate the value that DL puts on FT experienced, senior employees to help keep the operation running well.... while some of you might not want to be viewed as such, it is precisely for your experience and ability to lead (both by example and in actual team settings) that DL is willing to pay you the wages they do.

I get to see every day how we're supposed to carry the place...

 

[tech2101]

I don't think DL wants ANY frontline employees to come in today expecting to stay for a 30 year career.

I can imagine the interview process:

Delta: Hello John. So tell us why would like to come to work for Delta?

Prospect: Well, mam, I am a very hard worker and think I can contribute a great deal to the long term viability of Delta. I am a very dedicated person who sticks to my commitments and work ethic. I would love to work for Delta for a long time.

Delta: That is too bad. We are really looking for someone who is short-sighted enough to only want to give a couple of years of half-hearted service since we don't plan on keeping you around for long. We just cant spend that kind of money to train you for long term employment. Thank you for your interest in employment with Delta. Do you have any of your freinds from high school that dropped out that might be looking for short term work with low pay and benefits?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let's be clear that if DL is even at 50% RR on the ramp, and it might be 2/3 of DL's ramp staff, the process started with 7.5 more than 15 years ago... then, the focus was on outsourcing and DL did cut ramp personnel by thousands of people..... at the time, mostly those with less than 10 years of service.
DL ACS did not take proportionately any deeper cuts in BK than any other workgroup and may have actually been cut less since they had already begun the process of moving to a new model for reducing airport costs.
As much as any of us would like to think that working the ramp is a full-time career job, the reality is that DL has been able to create a model that probably makes it ramp costs some of the lowest in the industry....
but it is also important to note that DL has had the flexibility to implement those changes over time, grandfathering in those who were hired under the traditional employment model but hiring new personnel under a new model - essentially a B scale type program.
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You need only look at DL's announcement today regarding early retirement packages to realize that employees at other airlines are asking for early out programs, DL is offering severance packages that could have values (depending on age and seniority) over $100K. I don't think any other US airline is offering packages that rich. DL made the decision to offer that type of package because it heard from employees that the biggest fear (and obstacle) in early retirements is covering health care costs. They obviously made the decision that it is worth subsidizing health care costs for early retirees so that they could bring in new employees - but no one is being forced out of their position.
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I don't think you will be able to find any company that is hiring people today and telling them they should plan on sticking around for a 30 year career or more.... that mindset doesn't exist in the developed world any more.
The key is to figure out how to create an environment where companies can adapt w/o inflicting pain on those who remain....
Not every position can be staffed with part-time employees... but DL has figured out how to create a system that keeps costs down while ensuring the future of those employees who were hired with the expectation that they would remain for a career and wish to do so.
The fact that DL is reporting operational numbers as strong as it is - and every ramp oriented metric (speed of bags to claim, efficiency of pushbacks/arrivals etc) or experience I can see is positive, then I have a hard time understanding the argument that DL should continue to pay costs that it doesn't need to in order to get the job done - or that they are harming those FT/career people who choose to stay.
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The greatest value DL has gained from being non-union outside of the pilots (among large labor groups) is that it has had the ability to adapt to the constantly changing airline industry environment, and in the process of adapting better and faster than its peers, has been able to provide more security to more employees than other airlines - and in the process gain competitive opportunities that other carriers cannot obtain.
I find it hard to understand how that is not a win-win-win solution in an industry where most "wins" are far more unbalanced - and usually at the expense of employees.

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Dawg,
I did some poking around at sick time benefits for the industry and find that DL is the only airline that allows sick time to be used as personal time... so essentially it is indeed possible to have an extra 7 days of vacation time if you happen to be a healthy person.
Also interesting to note that DL has more holidays than either AA or UA.
Also, every one of DL's network competitors (legacy if you prefer) do not pay 100% on sick time from the first day as DL does.
Further, DL's OJI provides some of the longest benefits... UA has a program like what DL (and I believe NW) used to have but it takes over 10 years of service to accumulate the same amount of coverage... other airlines have shorter limits.