Delta Air Posts Loss but Beats Estimates

[BillLumbergh]

[SPAN class=headline][SPAN class=headline][A href=http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030116/atth005_1.html]Delta Air Lines Reports Fourth Quarter, Full Year 2002 Results[/A][/SPAN][A href=http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030116/airlines_delta_earns_3.html][BR][BR]Delta Air Posts Loss but Beats Estimates[/A][/SPAN]

 

[DL Gold Medallion]

I'll be curious to see the numbers for Q1 2003, with the exodus of medallion members to other airlines. Better yet, Q1 2004 will be even more interesting, since the few Medallions sticking it out for the relatively unaffected 2003 Medallion program will be gone.

 

[RJStud]

The sooner we get rid of some of you Medallion people with your overinflated notion of self-importance, the better off DAL will be.

We are all a little tired of hearing, "but I'm a __________ Medallion." every time something doesn't go your way.

BTW, where ya gonna go? JB, LUV, AT. Go then, and see how long it takes before they tire of your whining too.

 

[ual06]

Thanks RJStud. Other carriers will gladly accept all passengers your type runs off. Especially Medallions.

 

[RJStud]

Maybe I was a little harsh. We had just had a really nasty Medallion on our flight the other day. Really throwing that Medallion around a lot (like he paid for the ticket anyway, most likely his company did) an really abusing the FA's.

 

[luv2fly]

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On 1/18/2003 10:58:45 AM RJStud wrote:

Maybe I was a little harsh. We had just had a really nasty Medallion on our flight the other day. Really throwing that Medallion around a lot (like he paid for the ticket anyway, most likely his company did) an really abusing the FA's.
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I think you were extremely harsh and way out of line.
Whether or not he paid for the ticket is irrelevant. Bottom line is someone paid and that helps pay our salary.
I don't think Delta management would take to kindly to your remarks concerning our passengers, and with the airline industry against the ropes, we don't need employees like you chasing them away.

 

[iflyjetz]

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On 1/17/2003 137 PM RJStud wrote:

The sooner we get rid of some of you Medallion people with your overinflated notion of self-importance, the better off DAL will be.

We are all a little tired of hearing, "but I'm a __________ Medallion." every time something doesn't go your way.

BTW, where ya gonna go? JB, LUV, AT. Go then, and see how long it takes before they tire of your whining too.
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RJStud, the next time that you have a problem with a medallion member, may I suggest that you recommend that s/he switch over to UAL's Mileage Plus? We'll happily take 'em all. They're the bread & butter of the airline industry, not the 'once a year mom & pop on vacation with discounted internet fares.'

 

[DLFlyer31]

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On 1/19/2003 2:42:57 AM iflyjetz wrote:

They're the bread & butter of the airline industry, not the 'once a year mom & pop on vacation with discounted internet fares.'
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Big problem with your statement. Many of those "bread and butter" business travelers ARE buying the discounted internet fares. But instead of just buying them once a year (like Mom & Pop), they buy those discounted fares over and over again.

One of ways the majors went wrong is spending way too much time and money chasing after a very small cadre of travelers. UA spent a lot of money trying to lure business travelers, but the expenditures didn't pay off. The momement the economy tanked, many of those "loyal high-yield" business travelers either left UA for a low-fare carrier or now only fly UA when they offer rock bottom fares. This strategy makes sense for the cost-conscious business traveler, but it leaves UA (and AA,DL,CO,NW) in a real bind.

Frequent-flier programs were built in order to attract the high-yield business traveler. But what do the majors do when the business travelers are no longer high-yield? What happens when many of your Premier Exec's or Exec Plats or Platinum Medallion members are now producing yields that are no different than Mom & Pop who fly once a year?

With that said, I still think RJStud's attitude toward frequent fliers stinks. I'll agree that some frequent fliers are excessively demanding, but that's no excuse for the attitude.

 

[RJStud]

Why would they risk their "valuable" FF points on an airline that is not likely to be around much longer?

 

[iflyjetz]

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On 1/19/2003 11:52:47 AM DLFlyer31 wrote:

Big problem with your statement. Many of those "bread and butter" business travelers ARE buying the discounted internet fares. But instead of just buying them once a year (like Mom & Pop), they buy those discounted fares over and over again.

One of ways the majors went wrong is spending way too much time and money chasing after a very small cadre of travelers. UA spent a lot of money trying to lure business travelers, but the expenditures didn't pay off. The momement the economy tanked, many of those "loyal high-yield" business travelers either left UA for a low-fare carrier or now only fly UA when they offer rock bottom fares. This strategy makes sense for the cost-conscious business traveler, but it leaves UA (and AA,DL,CO,NW) in a real bind.

Frequent-flier programs were built in order to attract the high-yield business traveler. But what do the majors do when the business travelers are no longer high-yield? What happens when many of your Premier Exec's or Exec Plats or Platinum Medallion members are now producing yields that are no different than Mom & Pop who fly once a year?

With that said, I still think RJStud's attitude toward frequent fliers stinks. I'll agree that some frequent fliers are excessively demanding, but that's no excuse for the attitude.
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DL31, as with all other downturns in the airline industry, when supply exceeds demand, prices fall. There is still excess capacity to be wrung out of the system along with a need for passenger counts to rise. Once that occurs, ticket prices will again rise.
In the early 90s, after the Gulf war, predictions were made that airfares would never recover. Well, we can see that wasn't the case.

 

[iflyjetz]

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On 1/19/2003 7:41:22 PM RJStud wrote:

Why would they risk their "valuable" FF points on an airline that is not likely to be around much longer?
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When that happens, I HOPE to be lucky enough to be pulling your gear for ya, stud.
Back to reality. If you think that UAL's going chap 7 any time soon, you are out of the loop, son. UAL has secured $1.5B in DIP financing and has renegotiated all of its labor contracts to lower costs. UAL's got a tough road to hoe, but we'll survive.
I'm sure that you're gloating over the situation, not cognizant of how this (and the impending chap 11 filings by CAL & AMR) will drag down industry wages for years to come. So we all get screwed by this.

 

[RJStud]

I don't know what is going to happen to AAA or U, or any of us for that matter. I certainly do not wish anything bad on any airline employee (where did you read that in my post?), but it is a valid question. With lower demand capacity has to eventually go away. Who is it going to be?

 

[DLFlyer31]

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On 1/20/2003 12:48:41 AM iflyjetz wrote:

DL31, as with all other downturns in the airline industry, when supply exceeds demand, prices fall. There is still excess capacity to be wrung out of the system along with a need for passenger counts to rise. Once that occurs, ticket prices will again rise.
In the early 90s, after the Gulf war, predictions were made that airfares would never recover. Well, we can see that wasn't the case.
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Comparisons with the last downturn aren't very accurate. After the last downturn, two carriers ceased to exist (PAA and EAL). We've yet to see that happen...in fact our gov't has worked to prop up some unhealthy carriers with loan backing.

In terms of capacity cuts, carriers are cutting but it makes little difference if a carrier cuts and then a low-fare carrier backfills the capacity. Yields won't go up in that scenario.

Passenger traffic has come back. For example, DL and DL Connection carrried almost the same number of pax in 2002 as they did during the boom year of 1999. Low-fare carriers are carrying far more passengers today than they did three years ago. Net traffic isn't down as much as the many would like to believe. The traffic is there, but the yields are not.

Which brings me to my last point, the low-fare carriers. In 1992, how many strong low-fare carriers were there? Realistically only one, WN. Yet at that time even WN was a much smaller carrier...they didn't even serve BWI in 1992 (where today they have well over a hundred departures daily). Even as the economy begins to recover, low-fare carriers have gained enough strength in the market to prevent yields from rising as rapidly.

Will yields eventually go up? Yes. Even the low-fare carriers are just getting by in this economy. However, I think you can forget seeing the yields of the late 90's ever repeating themselves. Without those sky-high yields, the current FF programs will be far more of a liability than an asset.

 

[DL Gold Medallion]

[blockquote]
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On 1/17/2003 137 PM RJStud wrote:

The sooner we get rid of some of you Medallion people with your overinflated notion of self-importance, the better off DAL will be.

We are all a little tired of hearing, "but I'm a __________ Medallion." every time something doesn't go your way.

BTW, where ya gonna go? JB, LUV, AT. Go then, and see how long it takes before they tire of your whining too.
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[/blockquote]

I don't believe I've whined anywhere. I'm not complaining, simply stating fact. Delta has alienated a large portion of its most frequent customers, many of whom travelled on overpriced upgradeable fares. I am not one to throw around my Medallion Status at the airport. I spend about $500 a month travelling twice between SRQ and DCA. With the other trips I take on an annual basis, my leaving next year will cost Delta about $7000 - $8000 in low-maintenance (I never have questions, I never make complaints, and with kiosks I hardly so much as speak to a ticket agent) K-fare revenue. They'll also lose my $250 annual Crown Room Club membership. I know my piddly $8000 isn't much in Delta's eyes, but when thousands more like myself (and thousands of even more valuable Platinum Medallions who take th ebiggest hit) take the walk, Delta will be out quite a bit of revenue.

I used to stick with Delta because I liked the service. Then more recently I've stuck with Delta because I like sitting up front, and I still like the service. But thanks to the SkyMiles changes, starting January 2004 my SRQ-DCA travel will become nonstop TPA-DCA on US or TPA-IAD on UA. It will cost me less, take less time door-to-door, and I'll still get the perks that Delta decided to take away. You can't tell me that $253 RT for my SRQ-DCA roundtrip wasn't profitable business.

Sure the majors recovered in the last aviation downturn. But that time the only "discounter" was Southwest. Now DL has Air Tran slowly taking business away in ATL. JetBlue is thrilling pax with tv in every seat. The majors say "go to WN (B6, FL, F9, etc) and see how bad it is". Well it's no worse than your own coach product. Seat pitch is the same or better, especially when compared to Delta's industry-worst coach cabin. Food is the same on all but complete transcons, with the new "no food on flights under 4 hours" policy. Tickets are more flexible. SO what's so bad about flying the other guys? You have diminished your only advantage by eliminating service and essentially taking away First-Class upgrades. Welcome to the new airline world. And goodbye Delta.

 

[iflyjetz]

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On 1/21/2003 852 AM DL Gold Medallion wrote:

I used to stick with Delta because I liked the service. Then more recently I've stuck with Delta because I like sitting up front, and I still like the service. But thanks to the SkyMiles changes, starting January 2004 my SRQ-DCA travel will become nonstop TPA-DCA on US or TPA-IAD on UA. It will cost me less, take less time door-to-door, and I'll still get the perks that Delta decided to take away. You can't tell me that $253 RT for my SRQ-DCA roundtrip wasn't profitable business.

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DL Gold Medallion, UAL will immediately comp you to Premier Status. I believe that Gold Medallion will translate to Premier Exec Status. Here's a link to help: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTM...TML/012062.html
You can contact the Mileage Plus Service Center for details. I think that their number is (800) 421-4655. If that number doesn't work, call (888) 467-2768; it's MP Premier domestic number; they should be able to give you the MP service center's number.
As a recently furloughed UAL pilot, I can tell you that almost all of my previous coworkers have 'seen the light' since the chap 11 filing and are really bending over backward to please customers. One of the biggest disappointments (for me) when I first started working at UAL was how poorly some of UAL's employees treated customers. I have also heard great things about customer service on U.
I hope to one day be able to get you to your destination, even if you only generate a 'piddly $8000' per year to the bottom line.