Delta Air: Unit Will Launch 36 Boeing 757s In 2003
- Thread starter BillLumbergh
- Start date
ITRADE
Veteran
Delta Force?[BR][BR]The pilots and FAs were berets...
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On 11/20/2002 7:42:30 PM ct wrote:
Replacing mainline 752s with 732s coming back from DL Express will make it much harder to get F upgrades on the affected routes.
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I would think mainline 757s will be replaced with MD-88s or 738s and the 737-200s will actually go into markets where the M88s/738s were pulled out of (or CR7 replacements).
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There was however, a huge difference with WN when they first started -- and since -- that has made all the difference between them and the likes of DL, AA, UA, et al: It's spelled L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P; a concept that is totally lacking at the U.S. cartel airlines.
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Cartel...hmmm, Jim is that you? Hmm, maybe Kyle or Kevin can add Cartel to the vulgarity filter. LOL
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On 11/20/2002 7:42:30 PM ct wrote:
Replacing mainline 752s with 732s coming back from DL Express will make it much harder to get F upgrades on the affected routes.
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[/blockquote]
I would think mainline 757s will be replaced with MD-88s or 738s and the 737-200s will actually go into markets where the M88s/738s were pulled out of (or CR7 replacements).
[blockquote]
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There was however, a huge difference with WN when they first started -- and since -- that has made all the difference between them and the likes of DL, AA, UA, et al: It's spelled L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P; a concept that is totally lacking at the U.S. cartel airlines.
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[/blockquote]
Cartel...hmmm, Jim is that you? Hmm, maybe Kyle or Kevin can add Cartel to the vulgarity filter. LOL
To top it all off, John Selvaggio will be the one running it. This in itself is even more laughable, he is the clown that ran JI into the ground after they moved to RDU. If it wasn't for local investors, JI would have been gone sometime in 1996.
If you think Ferguson was/ is a bad leader, and I do, then you are not familiar with Selvaggio.
LOL..
If you think Ferguson was/ is a bad leader, and I do, then you are not familiar with Selvaggio.
LOL..
weatherman
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 121
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They are already starting to pull some 757 flights from PVD to ATL next Spring. They will be replacing them with MD-88 aircraft. Looks like PVD will be getting two 757 flights to MCO around that time. Interesting thing is that PVD - CVG remains 757s. I am not sure where the 757s are based out of that fly PVD - ATL, but those are the flights be downgraded. I thought DL said that the 757s would come from all hubs except ATL.
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On 11/21/2002 9:59:56 PM AV8NSIGO wrote:
MetroJet, CAL Lite, Shuttle by United are examples where an airline within an airline don't work very well no matter how much preparation, good intentions and money are poured into it. I wonder what makes DAL think they can pull it off. Does anyone wonder why AA and NW never attempted similar ventures? Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets. Monte the Mo Brewer didn't think it would be possible with the new security rules. He was wrong. The decision to drop Shuttle was LOGISTICAL based on bad assumptions. Shuttle TOOK market share from SWA. DAL ex and Tomato jet likely didn't work well due to the less than optimum equipment (737-200s). Maybe folks like DAL and UAL are bringing back the LCC operations BASED on history. NWA has never attempted it because they are fortunate to have little if any LC competition in their markets.
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On 11/21/2002 9:59:56 PM AV8NSIGO wrote:
MetroJet, CAL Lite, Shuttle by United are examples where an airline within an airline don't work very well no matter how much preparation, good intentions and money are poured into it. I wonder what makes DAL think they can pull it off. Does anyone wonder why AA and NW never attempted similar ventures? Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets. Monte the Mo Brewer didn't think it would be possible with the new security rules. He was wrong. The decision to drop Shuttle was LOGISTICAL based on bad assumptions. Shuttle TOOK market share from SWA. DAL ex and Tomato jet likely didn't work well due to the less than optimum equipment (737-200s). Maybe folks like DAL and UAL are bringing back the LCC operations BASED on history. NWA has never attempted it because they are fortunate to have little if any LC competition in their markets.
Bringing in Selvaggio (sp?), or anyone else from such a successful operation as Midway is laughable. As previously pointed out, LEADERSHIP in this industry is sorely lacking at most carriers!
MetroJet, CAL Lite, Shuttle by United are examples where an airline within an airline don't work very well no matter how much preparation, good intentions and money are poured into it. I wonder what makes DAL think they can pull it off. Does anyone wonder why AA and NW never attempted similar ventures? Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
MetroJet, CAL Lite, Shuttle by United are examples where an airline within an airline don't work very well no matter how much preparation, good intentions and money are poured into it. I wonder what makes DAL think they can pull it off. Does anyone wonder why AA and NW never attempted similar ventures? Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
In DL's case, this new low-fare carrier is largely a recognition that DL Express works, but needs major refinements.
As Busdrvr pointed out, the 732 is far from the optimal plane when you're competing against A320's and 737NG's. DL also needs lower employee costs to remain competitive with the likes of JBLU which has an extremely young and cheap labor force.
Will this effort by DL be successful? I'm not sure. But at least DL is recognizing that they have to do more to compete with the lowfare carriers, instead of just sitting around and hoping the economy gets better.
As Busdrvr pointed out, the 732 is far from the optimal plane when you're competing against A320's and 737NG's. DL also needs lower employee costs to remain competitive with the likes of JBLU which has an extremely young and cheap labor force.
Will this effort by DL be successful? I'm not sure. But at least DL is recognizing that they have to do more to compete with the lowfare carriers, instead of just sitting around and hoping the economy gets better.
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On 11/21/2002 10:13:32 PM Busdrvr wrote:
Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets.
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That was the only reason? Do you think that the changes to Shuttle work rules for pilots in the ALPA contract that came about after the Summer of 2000 had any impact on the financial viability of UAL Shuttle?
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On 11/21/2002 10:13:32 PM Busdrvr wrote:
Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets.
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[/blockquote]
That was the only reason? Do you think that the changes to Shuttle work rules for pilots in the ALPA contract that came about after the Summer of 2000 had any impact on the financial viability of UAL Shuttle?
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On 11/23/2002 10:30:44 AM Bear96 wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 11/21/2002 10:13:32 PM Busdrvr wrote:
Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets.
----------------
[/blockquote]
That was the "only" reason? Do you think that the changes to Shuttle work rules for pilots in the ALPA contract that came about after the Summer of 2000 had any impact on the financial viability of UAL Shuttle?
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ABSOLUTELY! they went hand in hand in shuttles demise. Before C2K, shuttle pilots made approx 10% less an hour, but flew at least 10% more a day (min guarentee was also 10% more per day: 5.5 vs 5). Capt Dubinsky never liked shuttle. he viewed it as a b-scale operation. C2K made the pay rates of shuttle and mainline 737 the same while still leaving shuttle productivity the same. Although the wage rates were higher, shuttle still had the advantage of better A/C utilization. Then came Sept 11. We no longer WANTED to max out the jets. Shuttle, with it's min daily flying greater than mainline, now lost it's only efficiency. Monte the Mo Brewer was rumored to have gone to senior management after Sept 11 and made the case that the pilots didn't even like it (WRONG) so it was killed, unfortunately at high costs. All those shuttle pilots were given bumps which increased training costs. In any case, expect shuttle, in one form or another, to be back at UAL.
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On 11/23/2002 10:30:44 AM Bear96 wrote:
[blockquote]
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On 11/21/2002 10:13:32 PM Busdrvr wrote:
Shuttle WORKED! It was only dropped after sept 11 bewcause we no longer WANTED to quick turn jets.
----------------
[/blockquote]
That was the "only" reason? Do you think that the changes to Shuttle work rules for pilots in the ALPA contract that came about after the Summer of 2000 had any impact on the financial viability of UAL Shuttle?
----------------
[/blockquote]
ABSOLUTELY! they went hand in hand in shuttles demise. Before C2K, shuttle pilots made approx 10% less an hour, but flew at least 10% more a day (min guarentee was also 10% more per day: 5.5 vs 5). Capt Dubinsky never liked shuttle. he viewed it as a b-scale operation. C2K made the pay rates of shuttle and mainline 737 the same while still leaving shuttle productivity the same. Although the wage rates were higher, shuttle still had the advantage of better A/C utilization. Then came Sept 11. We no longer WANTED to max out the jets. Shuttle, with it's min daily flying greater than mainline, now lost it's only efficiency. Monte the Mo Brewer was rumored to have gone to senior management after Sept 11 and made the case that the pilots didn't even like it (WRONG) so it was killed, unfortunately at high costs. All those shuttle pilots were given bumps which increased training costs. In any case, expect shuttle, in one form or another, to be back at UAL.
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