Delta Air Lines to Build Heavy Maintenance Facility in Queretaro, Mexico

[WorldTraveler]

Where you are today is working for a company that is generating profits at the top of the US industry and sharing them w/ their employees. A company that is worth more than any other airline in the US - when not many years ago, WN was worth more than all other US airlines COMBINED. A company that has protected more jobs of more of its own employees and has rewarded its employees for its success by moving them beyond their BK wages.

Everything is window dressing, Kevin. Your peers can adapt to the fact that they might have to change work areas in order to retain their jobs and keep getting pay raises... work done in Mexico is more than offset by work brought back to DL
While other airlines are sending more flying to their regional partners, DL is bringing work back to mainline.

Your peers and Dawg's peers DON'T feel slighted. Would they like to improve things? Of course, and nobody is stopping them from doing so.

And I STRONGLY encourage you to work w/in the system to make it better. GIven that your notion is to toss out DL's system and replace it with the same broken model that has cost airline employees more jobs than DL's and has kept those employees who have remained at lower wages, then it isn't surprising that your peers aren't interested.

But the challenge is always there for you to positively improve the system- whichever one in which you can affect change - and let us know the results.

I don't really care how you do it and if you use "your model" to succeed, I will be the first to cheer you.

 

[Kev3188]

"Know your place."

 

[WorldTraveler]

Once again, you perceive someone is acting condescendingly to you when in fact they are simply asking you to provide evidence not only of the true damages that you allege have been done to DL employees but also of the steps you have taken to fix the situation.....

repeating in case you missed it:

But the challenge is always there for you to positively improve the system- whichever one in which you can affect change - and let us know the results.

I don't really care how you do it and if you use "your model" to succeed, I will be the first to cheer you.

btw, I'm still waiting for the number of jobs at each carrier post-BK, the number of furloughees remaining at same, and the number of maintenance personnel at each US airline....

those numbers will speak volumes about which model works best to preserve and create jobs.

 

[Kev3188]

You seem to be under the assumption I'm interested in convincing you of anything.

You should disabuse yourself of that notion at once...

 

[WorldTraveler]

I didn't have too many illusions you were.....
but by the same token you seem to disregard the opinions of tens of thousands of your DL colleagues who happen to see things my way... and then you are surprised that you make no progress in achieving what you say you want at DL.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not surprised that change involves hard work. Luckily, 1000's of my coworkers do see the value in representation, and it's nice that the company is helping them reach that conclusion far faster than any activist ever could...

 

[topDawg]

it is precisely because they HAVE failed in BK that they don't work.... BK HAS defined the US airline industry for the past 10 years and given the cuts that AA currently is making, it will define how the rest of the industry has to work for years to come. Most of AA's unionized employees have agreed to contracts that will lock them into their BK wages for 6 years....do you think there is any incentive for UA or US or even DL or WN to increase pay against that backdrop? The only difference is that DL and WN WANT labor peace because they have demonstrated their business model works best w/ labor peace instead of the discord and fighting that has defined labor relations for the rest of the legacies for most of their history. no it just starts the game over again. They wont be going back into BK anytime soon. Not if they keep making Billions. (and and stop talking about WN. They are a failure...they have *gasp* unions)

7.5 was almost 20 years ago... DL aggressively moved to change the way its airport operations worked and cost a lot of labor peace.... but a large number of people who were affected by 7.5 are no longer even w/ DL and the ones that are still there clearly are not affected by that event or the unions would have won the representation elections. I'm kinda glad that DL was forced to have votes for both above wing and below wing because it showed that even if the vote is restricted to rampers, there wasn't enough people who feel threatend for their jobs to believe a union could make a difference.
lol....wasn't the vote by by like 500 people? the FAs are the same way. yes that is clearly a win for Delta. you know when i started they'd have 5% vote yes for a union. Now its not even 60%/40%. You still can't see it can you.

Go back and look at DL employee compensation pre-BK compared to their peers and you will see (if you choose to admit the truth) that DL employees were better compensated even then. note hardly. quit just looking at pay. Delta has had less time off than its peers for years. Thats a big deal to me.
And if BK is the new reality that unions have to face and overcome, the verdict is still how well they do in winning for their employees under that scenario.
no it isn't. The other companies wont put up with being constantly screwed by airlines. They will stop going into BK or pressure will be put on the government to make it less easy.
The simple fact is that DL employees recognize that they have done better than their peers at other airlines, BK or not.. and have not chosen to vote in new union representation.... on multiple occassions. YOUR PEERS have decided unions don't deliver anything they dont' already have, not me. how has anyone done better? If it the less pay than Southwest? how about paying more for health care, working more and having less time off than a BK contract for United?

DL HAS reduced the number of jobs lost due to economic forces that have sent far more employees to the street at other airlines - and they have done it for both unionized employees and non-union FAs and ground employees.

I'm still waiting for that list of maintenance employees at other airlines compared to DL.... and while you're at it you can add on the number of DL employees that have been hired IN ANY capacity vs. at other airlines.... where, in reality, most of DL's legacy peers still have thousands of employees still on furlough. Well I'm glad to see you can't read. thanks for that.

I'd like to see DL growing even more and keeping jobs for DL employees AND DCI employees. But DL has managed capacity better than its peers and is producing profits far larger. Earnings will start in a few days.... we can talk about who is running a superior business model then.... but I can tell you that DL will be far out front w/ respect to the profits it generates, the profit sharing it provides its employees, and the job security those employees have as a result of DL's business decisions.
would that be the profit sharing they cut by like 5%? just keeps right on giving. Oh and parts of Delta's model work due to its lower than BK labor cost vs UA and AA. It is truly sad that AA and UA have BK contract that are better than what Delta gets....yet for some crazy reason you keep telling me to shut up and be happy.
Of course the "narratives" of "DL employees are so disadvantaged and need the help of unions to keep up with their peers" doesn't fit the reality that DL employees endured smaller cuts in BK, have regained more salary and benefits since BK, and continue to benefit from more growth at DL and via outsourcing than at other airlines, but that IS the reality... as much as some people fight to keep the true reality from being known. really? smaller cuts? stop doing drugs.

what Northwest hubs have seen DCI go mainline?
What DAL-S station has gone to mainline(from DCI) post merger (that wasn't due to cuts....ie CVG)?
How many NW full time station now see a ass ton of RRs? how many large stations at Delta(20-30 flights) are DGS?
How many unionized carriers have a RR program?
how many unionized carriers have its own outsourcing company as a subsidiary?
how many unionized carriers have/had TWO outsourcing companies as subsidiaries?
how many unionized carriers are building a hangar in Mexico?
how many unionized carriers planned a complete outsourcing of its hubs on the ramp?
How many unionized carriers moved forward with said plan and moved its 2nd largest hub to complete outsourcing below wing?
How many unionized carriers did such a move, such a dump of employees, with out being told to by a BK judge?


How many times are you going to move past these question. Please answer them.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Glad you want to keep the conversation going, Dawg. Gives me more opportunities to reinforce my points…..

No, Dawg, it isn’t about unions vs. non-unions. It is about companies that are well-run and have the labor flexibility to achieve the corporate goals. DL has it but so does WN…. Your desire to want to omit WN from the conversation is specifically because you don’t want to admit that unions aren’t the answer. Well run companies are. DL and WN share good mgmt and labor flexibility. That is why they both continue to find opportunities to grow their businesses at the expense of other carriers but don’t beat up on each other, managing to live peacefully side by side and focusing their competitive efforts against other carriers.

BK laws were just reformed… AA is restructuring under the new rules. But the ability to extract from labor in BK hasn’t really changed…. That’s why AA’s labor is rightfully upset.

You meant to say that for topped out DL employees, vacation accumulation isn’t as rich but for many DL low and medium seniority employees, time off benefits are as good as or better than for employees at other airlines. Yet DL has offered one voluntary package after another including many – and the most recent – with retiree medical assistance. If benefits are so bad at the end of your career, then take a package and double dip… many senior employees have done this… Part of the reason why unions haven’t won the vote is because DL is able to allow many of those who don’t like the current situation to get out and for the vast majority of employees, the few differences you highlight aren’t there.
But you also fail to note that all of those salary differences you highlight vaporize when you factor in profit sharing which is almost certain to be much higher for DL mechanics this year than for UA employees. Add in that UA will be forced to dramatically increase pay for its pilots or face revolt again and the amount of money for profit sharing at UA will drop even more. Those are just economic realities.
People like Kev have said they want more money in their pocket NOW and less at risk in profit sharing. That’s why DL changed it. And there will still be healthy profit sharing payouts even under the 2013 levels which are on par with other carriers.
You continue to focus on a false dichotomy between DL and PMNW employees and hubs that doesn’t exist. DL doesn’t have two sets of employees… all employees are free to bid on other jobs throughout the system in search of the best opportunities.
But just to use your dichotomy, DL has treated PMDL hubs and PMNW hubs the same…. Capacity has moved around the system from all hubs BUT full-time employees have been given the opportunity to transfer or if they choose not to do so, to accept voluntary packages. That is no different than it has been w/ DL since the time when your great-great-grandfather worked for DL.

And since you pride yourself in coming from a line with 27 generations of DL employees J then you know that DL has long used flexible staffing models. RR might be a newer name but the concept is well established at DL. You do know the reason why 30K DL employees decided to buy The Spirit of Delta, don’t you?

…and that brings us to the point that you continue to perpetuate the union-driven myth that it is necessary to protect future jobs even though it is obvious that that strategy actually results in greater cuts to existing jobs. Unionized companies don’t want to be saddled with long-term commitments they can’t keep which is why BK has been so hard on unionized airlines = and why DL employees have fared better.
Yes, DL uses flexible staffing models to reduce costs – but they still manage to protect more CURRENT jobs than union-based models which try to keep CURRENT and FUTURE FT jobs but with the result that BOTH get cut.
DL reduces future FT jobs while doing a better job of protecting CURRENT FT jobs…
Your DL peers understand that…..
Finally, let me counter your notion that this is a union vs. non-union debate.
Your DL pilot colleagues voted to increase the amount of large RJs but got pay raises which make them the best paid pilots among legacy carriers… and topping WN scales for DL pilots on widebody aircraft.
While many pilots at other carriers chastise DL pilots for agreeing to the additional outsourcing of large aircraft, DL pilots were able to see that they have given the company to reduce the amount of costly small RJ flying while gaining access to large RJs which offer better passenger amenities.
The results are obvious from traffic results which you can see right here.
http://finance.yahoo...-130000580.html
DL has reduced its capacity throughout its system via Delta connection while keeping DL mainline flying much more stable. Note that in the month of Sept, DCI capacity was down 10% while DL mainline flying was practically flat – and the trend is there for the whole year.
With the arrival of the 739s and 717s, DL will be trimming even more regional carrier capacity…. Look at other carriers and it will be obvious they are not protecting mainline jobs while trimming their regional carrier capacity – in fact they are doing just the opposite.
It is precisely because other carriers use relaxed scope to reduce work for DL employees that unions fear the loss of jobs… yet DL employees, who have “no scope” as Kevin is keen to note, or the pilots who are unionized but have given up more scope, fare better than their peers at airlines that have fought to “hold the line on scope” only to end up losing more than their peers at DL.

You continue to want to ignore the work that DL employees have gained thru insourcing including via reduced DCI flying and through insourced maintenance, focusing instead on the jobs that have been outsourced.

Your DL colleagues continue to be able to see both sides of the equation which is why they don’t buy the false dichotomy you try to create, esp. since they realize that “losing” one thing at DL has come w/ gaining something else.

We don’t live in a perfect world. There are tradeoffs. It would be great if DL could do airframe overhauls AND insource engine work; it would be wonderful if DL could keep all the DCI employees on the payroll AND protect mainline flying… but the world is full of tradeoffs and your colleagues are smart enough to be able to weigh the options and choose what is best for them – which means increasing their pay and protecting their jobs in total better than at other carriers, including DCI carriers.
THAT Is why the majority of DL employees continue to not be interested in union representation. Even if 40% of employees want a union, the magic number is a simple majority and not one of the large non-unionized groups – mechanics, ACS, in-flight, res – have yet to achieve that simple majority to gain representation.

I’m still waiting for your numbers on:
1. The number of jobs other airlines have added since BK
2. The pay increases those carriers have given their employees post BK compared to pay raises by DL employees.
3. The number of maintenance employees at other airlines vs. at DL.



and you can add the number of cuts at other airlines in BK vs. at DL. When you come up w/ those numbers, you'll see why your list of questions is meaningless because it focuses only on what has been lost at DL withouth considering what has been gained AND it doesn't speak to the cuts at other airlines which have been far larger.

Cheers.

 

[Kev3188]

"He can compress the most words into the smallest ideas better than any man I have ever met."

Abraham Lincoln--

 

[WorldTraveler]

except they aren't small ideas... they are really big ideas... or else you are wasting your energy fighting for a cause that you are not winning.

but I have to say, Kev, that you make a great debate partner. You do make me smile.

Your faithfulness to the cause is commendable and I do have to laugh at your persistence.... here we are 4 years into the merger and your message is unchanged.

Go get 'em .. .and bring Dawg along to add variety to the show!

 

[topDawg]

Glad you want to keep the conversation going, Dawg. Gives me more opportunities to reinforce my points…..

No, Dawg, it isn’t about unions vs. non-unions. It is about companies that are well-run and have the labor flexibility to achieve the corporate goals. DL has it but so does WN…. Your desire to want to omit WN from the conversation is specifically because you don’t want to admit that unions aren’t the answer. Well run companies are. DL and WN share good mgmt and labor flexibility. That is why they both continue to find opportunities to grow their businesses at the expense of other carriers but don’t beat up on each other, managing to live peacefully side by side and focusing their competitive efforts against other carriers.

BK laws were just reformed… AA is restructuring under the new rules. But the ability to extract from labor in BK hasn’t really changed…. That’s why AA’s labor is rightfully upset.

You meant to say that for topped out DL employees, vacation accumulation isn’t as rich but for many DL low and medium seniority employees, time off benefits are as good as or better than for employees at other airlines. Yet DL has offered one voluntary package after another including many – and the most recent – with retiree medical assistance. If benefits are so bad at the end of your career, then take a package and double dip… many senior employees have done this… Part of the reason why unions haven’t won the vote is because DL is able to allow many of those who don’t like the current situation to get out and for the vast majority of employees, the few differences you highlight aren’t there.
But you also fail to note that all of those salary differences you highlight vaporize when you factor in profit sharing which is almost certain to be much higher for DL mechanics this year than for UA employees. Add in that UA will be forced to dramatically increase pay for its pilots or face revolt again and the amount of money for profit sharing at UA will drop even more. Those are just economic realities.
People like Kev have said they want more money in their pocket NOW and less at risk in profit sharing. That’s why DL changed it. And there will still be healthy profit sharing payouts even under the 2013 levels which are on par with other carriers.
You continue to focus on a false dichotomy between DL and PMNW employees and hubs that doesn’t exist. DL doesn’t have two sets of employees… all employees are free to bid on other jobs throughout the system in search of the best opportunities.
But just to use your dichotomy, DL has treated PMDL hubs and PMNW hubs the same…. Capacity has moved around the system from all hubs BUT full-time employees have been given the opportunity to transfer or if they choose not to do so, to accept voluntary packages. That is no different than it has been w/ DL since the time when your great-great-grandfather worked for DL.

And since you pride yourself in coming from a line with 27 generations of DL employees J then you know that DL has long used flexible staffing models. RR might be a newer name but the concept is well established at DL. You do know the reason why 30K DL employees decided to buy The Spirit of Delta, don’t you?

…and that brings us to the point that you continue to perpetuate the union-driven myth that it is necessary to protect future jobs even though it is obvious that that strategy actually results in greater cuts to existing jobs. Unionized companies don’t want to be saddled with long-term commitments they can’t keep which is why BK has been so hard on unionized airlines = and why DL employees have fared better.
Yes, DL uses flexible staffing models to reduce costs – but they still manage to protect more CURRENT jobs than union-based models which try to keep CURRENT and FUTURE FT jobs but with the result that BOTH get cut.
DL reduces future FT jobs while doing a better job of protecting CURRENT FT jobs…
Your DL peers understand that…..
Finally, let me counter your notion that this is a union vs. non-union debate.
Your DL pilot colleagues voted to increase the amount of large RJs but got pay raises which make them the best paid pilots among legacy carriers… and topping WN scales for DL pilots on widebody aircraft.
While many pilots at other carriers chastise DL pilots for agreeing to the additional outsourcing of large aircraft, DL pilots were able to see that they have given the company to reduce the amount of costly small RJ flying while gaining access to large RJs which offer better passenger amenities.
The results are obvious from traffic results which you can see right here.
http://finance.yahoo...-130000580.html
DL has reduced its capacity throughout its system via Delta connection while keeping DL mainline flying much more stable. Note that in the month of Sept, DCI capacity was down 10% while DL mainline flying was practically flat – and the trend is there for the whole year.
With the arrival of the 739s and 717s, DL will be trimming even more regional carrier capacity…. Look at other carriers and it will be obvious they are not protecting mainline jobs while trimming their regional carrier capacity – in fact they are doing just the opposite.
It is precisely because other carriers use relaxed scope to reduce work for DL employees that unions fear the loss of jobs… yet DL employees, who have “no scope” as Kevin is keen to note, or the pilots who are unionized but have given up more scope, fare better than their peers at airlines that have fought to “hold the line on scope” only to end up losing more than their peers at DL.

You continue to want to ignore the work that DL employees have gained thru insourcing including via reduced DCI flying and through insourced maintenance, focusing instead on the jobs that have been outsourced.

Your DL colleagues continue to be able to see both sides of the equation which is why they don’t buy the false dichotomy you try to create, esp. since they realize that “losing” one thing at DL has come w/ gaining something else.

We don’t live in a perfect world. There are tradeoffs. It would be great if DL could do airframe overhauls AND insource engine work; it would be wonderful if DL could keep all the DCI employees on the payroll AND protect mainline flying… but the world is full of tradeoffs and your colleagues are smart enough to be able to weigh the options and choose what is best for them – which means increasing their pay and protecting their jobs in total better than at other carriers, including DCI carriers.
THAT Is why the majority of DL employees continue to not be interested in union representation. Even if 40% of employees want a union, the magic number is a simple majority and not one of the large non-unionized groups – mechanics, ACS, in-flight, res – have yet to achieve that simple majority to gain representation.

I’m still waiting for your numbers on:
1. The number of jobs other airlines have added since BK
2. The pay increases those carriers have given their employees post BK compared to pay raises by DL employees.
3. The number of maintenance employees at other airlines vs. at DL.



and you can add the number of cuts at other airlines in BK vs. at DL. When you come up w/ those numbers, you'll see why your list of questions is meaningless because it focuses only on what has been lost at DL withouth considering what has been gained AND it doesn't speak to the cuts at other airlines which have been far larger.

Cheers.

So again...shut up or leave.. Now its not about unions and then you mostly repeat everything you have said. I'm to lazy to got and pick your post apart line by line.

So again...I'll leave you with this....

what Northwest hubs have seen DCI go mainline?
What DAL-S station has gone to mainline(from DCI) post merger (that wasn't due to cuts....ie CVG)?
How many NW full time station now see a ass ton of RRs? how many large stations at Delta(20-30 flights) are DGS?
How many unionized carriers have a RR program?
how many unionized carriers have its own outsourcing company as a subsidiary?
how many unionized carriers have/had TWO outsourcing companies as subsidiaries?
how many unionized carriers are building a hangar in Mexico?
how many unionized carriers planned a complete outsourcing of its hubs on the ramp?
How many unionized carriers moved forward with said plan and moved its 2nd largest hub to complete outsourcing below wing?
How many unionized carriers did such a move, such a dump of employees, with out being told to by a BK judge?


can't wait for you answers......

 

[Kev3188]

So again...shut up or leave.. Now its not about unions and then you mostly repeat everything you have said.

...Not to mention claiming it's not a union vs non-union debate, then immediately using the pilots' negotiated agreement in an attempt to get his point across...

can't wait for you answers......

Good luck!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Hey Dawg,
You can put up a list of “sins” that DL has done a mile long but what you can’t do and win the argument is put a list of the same “sins” that other carriers have committed side by side w/o realizing that DL has delivered a superior employment experience for its employees than has any other network airline.

Your responses are devoid of any sense of balance of what DL has gained for its employees AND of how DL HAS provided and IS providing more job security and better pay for its employees, on average, than those of any other network airline in the US.
I have readily acknowledged multiple times that DL has used a number of strategies to protect jobs of DL’s EXISTING workers even if it has meant giving up some work which a union would protect while losing even more jobs but you can only focus on what has been lost w/o being willing to admit that DL is insourcing engine work and other maintenance while its peers do not or at least anywhere to the same degree, is returning flying to DL mainline while other carriers continue to outsource more and more, is protecting ACS jobs, including by keeping stations staffing with mainline DL employees…..

But your colleagues don’t buy your “cup half empty” strategy because, even if they didn’t go to THE Terry College of Business, are smart enough to be able to see balance….which is why even the unionized pilots have supported the company’s efforts. And Kev, it is PRECISELY because unionized pilots and non-union ground employees BOTH recognize that the company’s strategy is in both types of employees best interests that the issue is not about union vs. non-union.

Instead of throwing accolades on NW mechanics who foolishly gave NW mgmt an opportunity to replace them, you should be lamenting the fact that NW handed DL a tiny, union-free maintenance group, almost ensuring that DL mechanics will never unionize.
Dawg, labor has CONSISTENTLY failed to organized the largest non-union blocks of DL employees because the vast majority of DL employees are capable of seeing that they are better off under the current arrangement than w/ the failed union-mgmt model that has cost far more jobs at far more airlines and has failed to increase salaries post-BK anywhere close to the level that has occurred at DL.

When you can provide the balance in your responses, then you might begin to win your point.
But your colleagues at DL do have that balance… and they don’t act like a three year old that throws a fit when mommy takes a shiny nickel from them and gives them back a dime in return while their mommy’s parents’ take a nickel from them and give them back a penny, touting how much more pretty a colored penny is.
You live in the world of copper pennies amongst peers who didn’t have to go to the Terry College of Business to figure out basic economic principles.

And did you not, Kevin, write multiple times during the organizing campaigns that if DL employees failed to vote in unions that the unions would have very little interest in spending money to mount ANOTHER unsuccessful organizing campaign at DL again? Of course you did which is also why you can deliver all of the cards you want but you have to be able to find a union which will spend the money necessary to win a campaign against DL. Given that there are no incumbent unions or dues paying members, good luck with that. You are a non-union worker now and will retire as one unless you decide to leave Delta.

BTW, Dawg, I'm not going anywhere and my questions will remain on the table for you to answer.... and I will continue to point out the big picture while you focus on the navel fuzz.

 

[Kev3188]

w/o realizing that DL has delivered a superior employment experience for its employees than has any other network airline.

According to who? I'd argue that the current "experience" is anything but superior, and are be several thousand of my peers who'd agree.

is protecting ACS jobs, including by keeping stations staffing with mainline DL employees…

For how long?

And Kev, it is PRECISELY because unionized pilots and non-union ground employees BOTH recognize that the company’s strategy is in both types of employees best interests that the issue is not about union vs. non-union.

Congrats; you have reset the bar for sophistry on this website. Well done.

And did you not, Kevin, write multiple times during the organizing campaigns that if DL employees failed to vote in unions that the unions would have very little interest in spending money to mount ANOTHER unsuccessful organizing campaign at DL again?

Indeed I did. It was to counter the notion some had-including you- that the "threat" of a union is just as good as having actual representation.

Of course you did which is also why you can deliver all of the cards you want but you have to be able to find a union which will spend the money necessary to win a campaign against DL.

That's already underway.

Given that there are no incumbent unions or dues paying members, good luck with that. You are a non-union worker now and will retire as one unless you decide to leave Delta.

Definitive proclamations aren't usually your thing. You sure about that? Even I don't claim to be clarvoyant.

It's early though. Maybe you should get some cafe, and revisit that statement.

P.S. Love the bolding of the text though; as if I'm not already constantly reminded of my at-will status...

BTW, Dawg, I'm not going anywhere and my questions will remain on the table for you to answer.... and I will continue to point out the big picture while you focus on the navel fuzz.

Like I said, Dawg: Good luck!

 

[WorldTraveler]

But your peers weren't convinced right after the merger - while NW and DL employees were still fenced - that unionization was necessary so how do you think they are going to vote for a union now that they are getting pay raises and profit sharing that far eclipses what most of their peers at other legacy airlines are receiving? You can talk about the inequalities in the workplace at DL all day long but your peers are more interested in keeping those pay raises and profit sharing checks coming...they are not about to mess w/ the formula that is rewarding them better than their peers.

The unions that would have to foot the bill for another contest w/ DL mgmt aren't the least bit excited about flushing $100s of thousands of dollars down a campaign in which the odds are so heavily stacked against the unions.

and now this: The AFA is going to get the TWU to help organize DL FA's.... don't suppose DL employees will notice all the TWU jobs that are being cut at AA, do you?

http://www.bizjourna....html?ana=yfcpc

So, yeah, Kevin, you and Dawg are non-union.

And when you and a simple minority of your peers decide that you really want to follow the failed labor-mgmt model that has left more of your peers at other airlines employed and those that remain with lower salaries than DL employees, then I'll be more than happy to acknowledge that you were right.....

but that's about as likely to happen as for me to wake up tomorrow morning and see snow.