"UA and AA cutting back on their LAX international flying"? NO WAY AA has since 1991 flown LAX-LHR and for 2 years LAX to NRT. UA has the same two and LAX to Sydney, Australia; they did stop Auckland a few years ago. Paris and Honk Kong were flown by UA from LAX briefly but were terminated. LAX is very important to UA for service to far away places across the Pacific and for just being a huge city. AA has the transcon market.
Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub: Nonstop Flights to London
- Thread starter s80dude
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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DL started service from PDX-NRT because that route became available when UA bought Pan Am's transpac system. DL jumped on the route to NRT, originated in ATL, extended it to Seoul, separated the two flights, continued the SEL flight onto TPE and then BKK, added LAX-HKG separately (with the MD11 which could barely go the distance on a good day), added other regional PDX-Japan routes, and realized right before 9/11 that PDX no longer worked, and tried to move the flights to LAX where they were all pulled after 9/11. I still believe much of it could still work today if the 767 were used and given that DL now has domestic and int'l partners that could help the routes.
I have never defended DL's previous transpac strategy; in fact, I have had the greatest criticism for it. DL didn't feed the flights, had lengthy connections as a result of the small operation which required turning both flights around on the same bank of flights, and did all this without any partners.
Just because DL failed once in the west coast-Asia market doesn't mean they will fail the next time around. All of us learn from our mistakes and DL clearly has as well.
Indications are that DL will make its inroads into Asia from ATL and JFK but they have said they believe there is opportunity to serve Asia from LAX. DL has dumped tons of capacity into the Atlantic and Latin America and it is working. Sure, they could be filling it with trash but there are no indications their fares are unreasonable and the statements that they expect to show strong profits indicate that they are filling the flights with industry average fares.
I still believe DL has much work to do over the Atlantic and Latin America and you will continue to see significant growth there but that doesn't mean they won't start moving to develop Asia. They could be doing much more than they are and are obviously thinking very hard about going back. But to use the past and 9/11 as evidence that they won't return is just not defensible.
I have never defended DL's previous transpac strategy; in fact, I have had the greatest criticism for it. DL didn't feed the flights, had lengthy connections as a result of the small operation which required turning both flights around on the same bank of flights, and did all this without any partners.
Just because DL failed once in the west coast-Asia market doesn't mean they will fail the next time around. All of us learn from our mistakes and DL clearly has as well.
Indications are that DL will make its inroads into Asia from ATL and JFK but they have said they believe there is opportunity to serve Asia from LAX. DL has dumped tons of capacity into the Atlantic and Latin America and it is working. Sure, they could be filling it with trash but there are no indications their fares are unreasonable and the statements that they expect to show strong profits indicate that they are filling the flights with industry average fares.
I still believe DL has much work to do over the Atlantic and Latin America and you will continue to see significant growth there but that doesn't mean they won't start moving to develop Asia. They could be doing much more than they are and are obviously thinking very hard about going back. But to use the past and 9/11 as evidence that they won't return is just not defensible.
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
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mmmm not so much - UA has the high fare transcon market with PS... AA has the leftovers.. UA bagged that one - sorry to burst the bubble.
Out of curiosity, just what equipment is DL planning to use for all of those 12-14 hour LAX transpac markets?
And how are they going to buy all of those planes while they are, you know, insolvent and all?
Is that because you say so?
Maybe 777's with the 'saved' pilot pension money, on emergence from BK?
donttouchthebeauty
Veteran
- Jan 11, 2006
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No, its because its a fact, esecially in the JFK market. AA gasped when they saw UA roll that one out (especially in BK). If you but a ZED and fly it sometime Mikey you will see why. UA definitely owns SF and LAX has several large players but WN and UAL and AA are the largest.. However UA offers something the others cant.. ASIA-PAC, including sydney and melbourne, without going through a partner.
Where is delta going to fly from LAX to ASia? Tokyo, not unless NW goes. There are 3 US airlines flying LAX to NRT, NW, UA & AA. Seoul is flown by there Skyteam partner Korean Air. Hong Kong, Cathay has 3 747 daily, it would be a tough nut to crack. Taipei, heavily served by EVA and China Airlines, is dificult. I just don't see where Delta could fly and not be the underdog.
You've got a point, but before there is any west coast int'l expansion, DL needs to first "reconnect" the dots on the west coast for feed...
You say "fact" But offer no statistics with that. Is it fact or opinion? I havent heard or read where AA is being hurt by UAL in the transcon markets.
donttouchthebeauty
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- Jan 11, 2006
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They are not being hurt - they definitely hold their own - however - when UAL redid their 757s and nixed the 767s but made it into a premium service transcon ( chocolate covered strawberries, kir royal, personal dvd players with 10 dvds per person(no cost), bose headsets, great food and desserts... They took alot of transcon business passengers from AA.. However they dont get the connecting traffic AA does to europe to JFK rather UAL get it to IAD where AA doesn't and Delta Doesnt and everyone else and there dog doesnt. PS shocked AA's execs, I will look for some articles, it has been a couple of years though - fly it some time - you will enjoy it as well - i know i buy a zed when i can and fly it from la and san fran, great product. Mikey i have a question, does AA currently have sleepers on the 777? or just a 3/4 lie flat? Was confused since they said they were doing a makeover to lie flat or is this just on the 767. Also Delta will enter the Premium transcon service they have said, so it should be interesting, since they are the AA competitor at JFK.
On transcans we have had for a number of years personal DVD player and a portfolio containing 20 DVD selections, including Bose headsets. add to it the roomieness of a widebody jet.
AA business class is still a 3/4 seatbusiness class 767 These are being replaced by the new lie flat new seat and tour
The 767 gets the new seats first, through the end of the year. Next year the 777 gets the lie flats.
AA owns the JFK-LAX transcons. UA switched to the PS service to protect the small market they had (mostly LAX originating). AA always has been the market leader. When B6 came in and took the low end out, UA decided it was time to get out of that business. To add to the twist, look who's idea it was...Martin White. Martin was the joker who was in charge of DL Consumer Mktg when Delta tried to enter the three class game on the transcons and then watched DL get slaughtered. Somehow that guy coud convince people of anything. UA's PS didn't surprise AA too much, at least not anyone with a brain. It was a pretty clear surrender by UA.
DL, by introducing Song with a front cabin should be able to grow their market share quite a bit. It will be supperior to B6 (front cabin) and AA (better coach). CO, using smaller aircraft and out of EWR will continue to maintain a strong presence in the overall market.
DL, by introducing Song with a front cabin should be able to grow their market share quite a bit. It will be supperior to B6 (front cabin) and AA (better coach). CO, using smaller aircraft and out of EWR will continue to maintain a strong presence in the overall market.
jimntx
Veteran
Yeah, I know. Considering the seamless transfers from AA to Cathay Pacific, Qantas, and Japan Airlines--not to mention our own service to NRT--it's no wonder we get no business in that market. NOT!
