Delta Air Lines Seeks 'Crown Jewel' for New York-JFK Hub: Nonstop Flights to London

[artiefufkin1]

I have no idea who WT is. But I like his posts, more informative than most. And it is kinda funny that a guy without resorting to name calling or childish remarks (this thread if full of them by his detractors) manages to chap the asses of usaviation's tired crew of disgruntled mechanics and grouchy pilots...LOL

Not meaning you driver, you seem kind of even keel.

Who would DL merge with should UA be taken? Is this a trick question? My guess WT will say Northwest.

I await his verdict along with the ever so grouchy New Hamphsire Brown Bearman....LOL

 

[Fly]

It wouldn't matter who UAL merged with if it wasn't UAL. WT would kill himself.

Hmmm, 22 posts in 5 days. Amazing! All these years you have SO MUCH to say yet you patiently waited until you happened to find USAviation....BS! My visual of you has become more and more real. An 87 year old parapalegic....am I right?



fyi - Bear isn't grouchy...he hates morons.

 

[ualdriver]

I have no idea who WT is. But I like his posts, more informative than most. And it is kinda funny that a guy without resorting to name calling or childish remarks (this thread if full of them by his detractors) manages to chap the asses of usaviation's tired crew of disgruntled mechanics and grouchy pilots...LOL

Not meaning you driver, you seem kind of even keel.

Who would DL merge with should UA be taken? Is this a trick question? My guess WT will say Northwest.

I await his verdict along with the ever so grouchy New Hamphsire Brown Bearman....LOL

"Hello there WT. I just signed up."

I think that quote from you Artie is what is creating the confusion. Post 51 of this thread.

I'm glad I seem "kind of even keel." That's the highest of compliments for an internet forum member.

 

[artiefufkin1]

Fly

You're really on the wrong trail bird dog. I have plenty of posts airliners.net. I was suspended for 3 days by a prick of a moderator for "inciteful" political posts on the non-aviation thread. This "moderator" has his own right wing blog where he spouts typical right wing radio talking points. So you can guess where I'm coming from and you can guess the "objectivity" of their moderator. So I left. I'm a veteran myself and I'm not going to be lectured by "Bush can do no wrong" enlistment age chickenhawks without speaking up.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Now the secret is really out.

Fly is really a sexy, less bright version of driver. With cockpit doors locked now, how can we tell if he/she is in the cockpit or the cabin? UA is cutting costs by having crew members interchange between F/A and pilot roles. Pretty smart, actually. About as smart as Artie and I being the same person.

I have never doubted that UA is making progress…. They are just doing it painfully slow in an environment where the industry changes practically overnight. And it is precisely that speed of change that makes the airline industry so fun to watch.

As for the economy plus CASM advantage, if it doesn’t translate into a proportionately higher RASM, then it should be pulled. AA figured that out. And DL figured out that cramming a bunch of seats into a 757 doesn’t accomplish much if the RASM falls faster than the CASM. Having a unique product is always hard to sustain in an industry where it is necessary to match fares of carriers that do not have the differentiated product.

The reason UA has been able to keep its RASM advantage up is because the economy is strong. We are at the top of the business cycle right now which makes recovery for the industry a lot stronger – and makes it possible for AA to put away a couple billion dollars a year in cash. But the problem with the airline industry is that there is always a bottom of the cycle and for far too many years, airline executives have managed to the top of the cycle rather than the bottom.

My fear is not for UA right now but for what happens 2-3 years from now when the economy is at the bottom of the cycle and UA has LFC competition all over its network – and still has E Plus which is supposed to generate better revenue that the competition but is not.

I don’t think DL and NW have much interest in each other. NW could certainly help DL get into the Pacific but at least half of NW’s domestic fleet would have to be parked along with hubs from both carriers. NW is too large to cleanly fit with any of the other big 4 carriers leaving NW as the only carrier with a relatively clean fit. Further, unless NW moves very quickly to add Japan overfly routes with its 787s, its Pacific route system is only good for yesterday.

DL has stated its intentions to build a global network on its own which is why I believe you will see them develop LAX into a transpac gateway. However, they will never be the size to Asia withouth an acquisition since UA has acquired assets and had a 20 year head start. There will still be very little overlap for DL and UA making a merger at some point possible. Interestingly, someone on airliners.net pointed out that 2 of DL’s 777 orders on Boeing’s website are shown w/ GE engines… perhaps a forerunner to conversion to LRs for which GE provides the only engines.

I believe you will see CO and DL take the same approach –they will merge or acquire but only if it is in their best financial interests; either carrier will be able to stand on their own 2 feet. Given that I believe both carriers will continue to post industry leading profitability, a merger will come down to the best overall merger proposal. DL’s more recent balance sheet restructuring, better leverage measurements (remember DL still has Comair which it can sell when it has rehabilitated it and has hinted at selling TechOps – both of which could knock billions off its debt), and larger size could well be an advantage.

And as for cost comparisons, remember that we don’t have DL’s 2Q numbers. 1Q06 was only 3 ½ months into DL’s bankruptcy. They still have not announced some fairly significant debt and lease restructurings so it isn’t at all unbelievable that DL’s costs will go down much faster than the rest of the industry.

As for pensions, the four carriers left with DB plans could end up with much lower pension costs than UA or US given their ability to wait for a solution from Washington. I’m sure the employees at those 4 carriers are grateful that the U* carriers terminated their plans and provided enough scare for Washington to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Oh, and good morning, Artie. Sorry about that knee in the chest about 3 a.m. I was just dreaming about Fly. <_<

 

[PHLfa88]

Oh, please, Mikey. DL apparently has a $15M spending limit w/o approval of creditors and they have spent that much several times during BK for aircraft and terminal upgrades. It’s why DL was rated in the recent JD Power survey as having some of the best interiors among US airlines. You spend money to make money – and to secure your employees’ futures.

To say that this comes out of DL employees’ hides is preposterous. DL employees are still paid higher than the employees of most other BK airlines, esp. of UA. If you want to talk about taking it out of the hide of employees, I suggest you look at UA. Miss Fly is so happy to give her pension up for the company yet fails to realize that UA’s pension costs probably will be higher than the 4 remaining carriers who are on the verge of getting the pension relief that I predicted long ago they would get.

Dude. If You Don't Know What Your talking About you needn't say anything.
Fact: Delta Employees are NOT Paid Higher Than Employees of Most Other BK Airlines. I Know This Because My Partner Took A %30 Paycut Plus Other Cuts and Adds (Such as insurance that he now has to pay for).
And yes Sir This DOES Come Out Of The Employees Hides!!
Thank You Very Much and Have A Nice Day!

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm having a wonderful day.

There is obviously more than just the across the board paycut at work here because no non-pilot employees took a pay cut that much without a downgrade.

If you'd like to share the details with the world, we'll cnosider your post of value but in aggregate, my statement is still true.

Sorry to hear that your friend is impacted by an exception.

 

[hp_fa]

I'm having a wonderful day.

There is obviously more than just the across the board paycut at work here because no non-pilot employees took a pay cut that much without a downgrade.

If you'd like to share the details with the world, we'll cnosider your post of value but in aggregate, my statement is still true.

Sorry to hear that your friend is impacted by an exception.

Hey Sparky:

Who is this "we'll" you speak of? Since when do you determine what gets considered?

 

[WorldTraveler]

those of us who want to read it. You are free to pass if you wish.

 

[JAMAKE1]

Call me as crazy as World Traveler, but I am having a moment of insight so here goes:

History tends to repeat itself. If one were to reflect on the history of the U.S. airline industry in the era of post-deregulation, one would recall that the era shortly after 1978, was a time when a proliferation of up-start carriers took to the skies. The legacy carriers at the time struggled to compete against the likes of Midway Airlines, People Express, Air Florida, America West, World Airways, etc. During that time, Braniff ceased operations.

Following that period, the industry underwent a period of consolidation in which CO mergerd with Texas International (TI), UA purchased PA's Asia routes, AA acquired EA's Latin America routes, DL acquired WA, US acquired PS and PI, AA acquired Air Cal (OC), NWA acquired RC, TW acquired OZ, and CO acquired/merged the assets of PE, FL, and NY. Shortly after that time, fares increased and the industry underwent a period of stabilization.

During the early 1990's, US retreated back east, PA and TW sold their Heathrow routes to UA and AA respectively, DL acquired PA's trans-atlantic routes; and Midway, PA, and EA ceased operations. UA also acquired PA's Latin America routes. The U.S. economy peaked during the mid-1990s and the airline industry went through what was perhaps its most prosperous period in history.

The new millenium brought a wave of LCC's with it including Jet Blue, the further expansion of SWA, Air Tran, Frontier, and Spirit. The legacies once again struggled to compete. Then 9/11 happened. The economy and industry tanked. US, UA, DL, NW, TZ, AQ, HA, ended up in Chapter 11. As those airlines have started to emerge, fare rationality has returned to the industry, which brings us to the next wave: Consolidation. HP has helped to bring US out of bankruptcy and the two are in the process of merging operations. NW and DL are still in bankruptcy.

AA and UA have a long history of being neck-to-neck fierce competitors. It is no secret that AA would love to have the presence that UA enjoys in Asia. Conversely, it is equally important that UA grab a larger piece of the pie in Latin America as well as the NYC market. Latin America, and NYC, combined with the lack of a hub presence in the southeastern U.S., leaves a gaping hole in United's otherwise, well-positioned GLOBAL route network (contrary to how WT defines "global").

AA has made tremendous progress in reducing their costs and positioning themselves to be in the marketplace for the long-term. UA, chose a different route, using the bankruptcy process to restructure. I firmly believe that the two largest carriers will remain in the marketplace for years to come. But at whose expense?

This is the point where my world and WT's world differ. If I were to call it, and while there has been much speculation about a UA-CO combination (largely on the part of both carriers' rank-and-file employees), my vision sees the industry further consolidating with AA getting its long-awaited Asia routes (from NWA) and United successfully filling the gap in its network, mainly, NYC and Latin America, through a combination with DL. UA and AA have probably, the best brand recognition world-wide, regardless of the fact that CO may serve more destinations throughout the world. It is important to consider that much of CO's international route network involves thin routes to both Asia (through Guam) and Europe (through EWR). Likewise, DL has hub operations in considerably smaller markets (SLC and CVG) than does UA at SFO, LAX, ORD, and IAD, along with a powerful franchise at NRT in the Pacific and LHR and FRA in Europe.

Furthermore, HP has its hands full with trying to merge the operations of the larger US, and CO, for the most part, is holding its own. So there it is. That is how I see the outpicturing of the next phase of U.S. airline consolidaton: AA acquiring the assets of NW, UA acquiring the assets of DL, and US/HP and CO largely remaining independent stand-alone carriers.

I could be way off, but food for thought...

 

[Bear96]

DL has stated its intentions to build a global network on its own which is why I believe you will see them develop LAX into a transpac gateway.

They already tried that with PDX.

By the way, how'd that work out?

 

[Ch. 12]

They already tried that with PDX.

By the way, how'd that work out?

Are you holding the PDX and LAX markets equal?!

 

[Bear96]

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

I was making an observation about WT's latest insightful pronouncement that the next part of DL's unparalleled turnaround strategy for establishing world domination and becoming less insolvent is the original and brilliant idea to make a transpac gateway somewhere on the west coast.

Gee, what a great idea! DL never thought of that before!

In fact, DL tried that, and failed miserably.

In any case, if LAX is clearly superior to PDX for such a gateway, why didn't they try LAX instead of PDX the last time around?

 

[Ch. 12]

In any case, if LAX is clearly superior to PDX for such a gateway, why didn't they try LAX instead of PDX the last time around?

My guess is that since LAX was already teaming with AA, TW, and UA flying to many cities across the pacific from LAX, there wasn't much room. With 777's and shifting of flights, AA and UA (correct me if I'm wrong) seem to have cut back on their LAX international flying and TW obviously isn't flying from LAX anymore Sometimes it's all in the timing. From what I understand, DL also chose PDX b/c of cargo prospects (ala NW out of SEA) but could never make it up on the passenger side.

I don't think that anyone wouldn't say that LAX is clearly superior to PDX for international pax travel, do you?

 

[Bear96]

I don't think that anyone wouldn't say that LAX is clearly superior to PDX for international pax travel, do you?

Apparently, DL thought PDX was superior at one point.

(Oh and I don't think TW was doing any transpac flying from LAX when DL had the PDX hub. I could be wrong though. Nor would I describe AA's transpac LAX flights as "many.")