Delta+7%

[WorldTraveler]

AT LEAST until DL reveals its profit sharing payouts for 2014... which happens tomorrow.

why do you think Parker is trying so hard to get contracts signed as quickly as possible?

 

[DallasConehead]

What is sad is that we are not saying, "our union is going to get us at LEAST 7% better then delta"

What we are saying is "I doubt we will get the 7% above delta, that would be too HUGE a raise, we'll never get that"


The association, the TWU, and the IAM has an image problem.

I'm not saying its to much of a raise, I'm saying that our representatives will figure out a way to take it down to minimums in order to "save jobs". The negotiating committee will convolute the idea of "7% above", the "small minded presidents" will squabble amongst themselves and come back with a crappy deal that only protects their little fiefdoms. WE will never see 7% above Delta, guaranteed. The only way it could happen is if the company doesn't go for the BS the unions will want which will be to save jobs and protect fiefdoms and instead wants to improve moral.
 
To me the image is 180 out, its seems the company wants to give it but the union wants to take it away.

 

[WeAAsles]

The FA's essentially received 7% in base wages above their top payed counterpart at Delta. That was originally 3% in exchange for PS and then another 4% added later. From what I understand the top out rate was 8% above and the rest was added to the lower tiers so topped out members received a greater percentage overall? From reading the FA Delta FB organizing page they also have much better benefits than their Delta counterparts as well. That was another reason Delta FA's filed for representation.

What disturbs me is the fact that it doesn't seem like we have any "Negotiations Protocol Agreements"? Both the Pilots and FA's said that it was a requirement of the creditors to move forward with the merger. No one has publicly said if it was required by the TWU as well? Esentially maybe the creditors weren't as concerned with us having a deal in place to move forward.

Jetnet has the process spelled out for each workgroup and makes no mention of any NPA? If their were an NPA I would have to think that the company would advertise that so stockholders would have more confidence that there will not be any issues with Mechanics and Fleet against the company if we don't reach a deal in any type of timely manner?

The IAM did put out a communication stating the phrase "Expedited Negotiations" though. What that term means though is anybody's guess?

 

[NYer]

The FA's essentially received 7% in base wages above their top payed counterpart at Delta. That was originally 3% in exchange for PS and then another 4% added later. From what I understand the top out rate was 8% above and the rest was added to the lower tiers so topped out members received a greater percentage overall? From reading the FA Delta FB organizing page they also have much better benefits than their Delta counterparts as well. That was another reason Delta FA's filed for representation.

What disturbs me is the fact that it doesn't seem like we have any "Negotiations Protocol Agreements"? Both the Pilots and FA's said that it was a requirement of the creditors to move forward with the merger. No one has publicly said if it was required by the TWU as well? Esentially maybe the creditors weren't as concerned with us having a deal in place to move forward.

Jetnet has the process spelled out for each workgroup and makes no mention of any NPA? If their were an NPA I would have to think that the company would advertise that so stockholders would have more confidence that there will not be any issues with Mechanics and Fleet against the company if we don't reach a deal in any type of timely manner?

The IAM did put out a communication stating the phrase "Expedited Negotiations" though. What that term means though is anybody's guess?

 
"The Debtors and US Airways also engaged in discussions with the leaderships of the APFA and the TWU in an effort to further minimize labor risks and cost dis-synergies associated with a merger. Those discussions resulted in a tri-party MOU among the Debtors, US Airways, and the TWU (covering American’s ground employees) and a letter of understanding and agreement between US Airways and the APFA (covering American’s flight attendants), each of which outlines terms of employment in the event of a merger and processes and timelines for various steps of the integration." --AMR Disclosure Statement

 

[DallasConehead]

There is no such language that I am aware of that would send us to binding. If someone has it, show it. Otherwise let the shenanigans begin.

 

[swamt]

Well, Parker has given the FAs Delta+7 and its on the table for the Pilots.
If he offers any less than that to the mechanics, let's just say, " Houston, we have a problem".

As far as the 4% more, it's my understanding that With the 4% more it brings it to Delta+7.

Thx for the explanation.  I am pretty sure you guys (mechanics) will be offered the Delta+7% to keep it fair thru all the union groups.  If Parker does not offer it he will have problems from this point going forward.  He also wants to keep the TWU in place as much as possible, offering anything less to start with will risk the TWU alliance to fail and another union to possibly be moved in, and he doesn't want that.  He wants to keep the ever agreeing two unions in place.  I really do think the offer will be there, and more than likely some other items will get improved that were taken away before just to try and keep it labor friendly.  We will all see when the time comes, and after the NMB finally makes a decision.  Good luck to all you guys hope you guys get what you want and deserve...

 

[DallasConehead]

He will offer it and the union will **** it away.

 

[bigjets]

Just read where the local 591 officers will be going back to the floor, you can read that on the 591 webpage. That does not look good for us when the 591 officers won't meet with management. It's time for a new union or no union, whats the point of paying dues when the union won't meet with management, It's not like the union has really produced anything over the YEARS!!!!!!
 
 
Laura Glading meets with company, now the APFA has industry leading contract, the APA meets with company, now they are getting offered a 23% pay raise. The IAM and now TWU won't talk to management and we have the worst contract until 2018. 
 
Then there's bob writing on this forum that the company wants to fire all of us, and if it was up to DP we would be getting paid minimum wage. When DP GAVE the FAs $82m in contract improvements when he didn't have to, or how he is giving everybody a 4% raise when he doesn't have to. I think the real problem might not be the company, but our own union.
 
Crandall wanted to give mechs a bonus for all the good work, the TWU said no, because not ALL TWU members were getting bonus.
 
The 95, 2003, 2012 contracts, where everybody else did better then the mechanics
 
The TWU holding back of some our equity for legal reasons.

 

[bigjets]

AA is very successful because of the amount of business travelers we have. The reason they fly is to do face to face meetings, they play golf, got to bars, parties, eat dinner, they build personal relationships. To say I'm not meeting with you or to take an adversary stance will not help anybody. This is not the 1930s, times have changed, our union leadership needs to adapt. 
 
 
The laws of the USA are not in labors favor, public opinion for labor unions is not favorable, the TWU membership view of the TWU is not favorable. The troubleshooting chart tells me that the TWU needs to adopt a new method of dealing with AA.
 
That doesn't mean go golfing and all the union officials get a sweet new deal for themselves. That means getting the best deal possible for the MEMBERSHIP!
 
You never see business men that HAVE to deal with each other say, "I'm not going to any more meetings with you". 
 
We will never get the contract we deserve at this rate. 

 

[Deleted member 14439]

AA is very successful because of the amount of business travelers we have. The reason they fly is to do face to face meetings, they play golf, got to bars, parties, eat dinner, they build personal relationships. To say I'm not meeting with you or to take an adversary stance will not help anybody. This is not the 1930s, times have changed, our union leadership needs to adapt. 
 
 
The laws of the USA are not in labors favor, public opinion for labor unions is not favorable, the TWU membership view of the TWU is not favorable. The troubleshooting chart tells me that the TWU needs to adopt a new method of dealing with AA.
 
That doesn't mean go golfing and all the union officials get a sweet new deal for themselves. That means getting the best deal possible for the MEMBERSHIP!
 
You never see business men that HAVE to deal with each other say, "I'm not going to any more meetings with you". 
 
We will never get the contract we deserve at this rate.

My troubleshooting chart says the worthless union needs to be REMOVED and REPLACED!!!

 

[Phoenix]

To follow USScare mgmt they want to pay AMTs Delta wages + 7% . Anyone done the math? That's 43-44$ an hour. Not to mention benefits. Vacation sick time holidays, yada . Is this true? Or an EOlsen trick.

 
If it sounds too good to be true...then there is more to the story.
 
If management tells a story too good to be true.... Its  a distraction while another suit is walking out the back door with the loot.    

 

[swamt]

Just read where the local 591 officers will be going back to the floor, you can read that on the 591 webpage. That does not look good for us when the 591 officers won't meet with management. It's time for a new union or no union, whats the point of paying dues when the union won't meet with management, It's not like the union has really produced anything over the YEARS!!!!!!
 
 
Laura Glading meets with company, now the APFA has industry leading contract, the APA meets with company, now they are getting offered a 23% pay raise. The IAM and now TWU won't talk to management and we have the worst contract until 2018. 
 
Then there's bob writing on this forum that the company wants to fire all of us, and if it was up to DP we would be getting paid minimum wage. When DP GAVE the FAs $82m in contract improvements when he didn't have to, or how he is giving everybody a 4% raise when he doesn't have to. I think the real problem might not be the company, but our own union.
 
Crandall wanted to give mechs a bonus for all the good work, the TWU said no, because not ALL TWU members were getting bonus.
 
The 95, 2003, 2012 contracts, where everybody else did better then the mechanics
 
The TWU holding back of some our equity for legal reasons.

AMEN brother, AMEN!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

 
"The Debtors and US Airways also engaged in discussions with the leaderships of the APFA and the TWU in an effort to further minimize labor risks and cost dis-synergies associated with a merger. Those discussions resulted in a tri-party MOU among the Debtors, US Airways, and the TWU (covering American’s ground employees) and a letter of understanding and agreement between US Airways and the APFA (covering American’s flight attendants), each of which outlines terms of employment in the event of a merger and processes and timelines for various steps of the integration." --AMR Disclosure Statement

Ok so that's a very interesting statement when you think about it. "Timelines" We know that the TWU was obligated to start negotiations 30 days after the merger closed and that was thrown off by the forming of the Association. If I remember correctly after the IAM received their CBA's there was also a 30 day agreement (Again waiting on the NMB to make it official) So you have to think if there are agreements in place to start the process for talks there should be some type of agreement for when talks have to conclude as well?

IF, IF that is the case I wonder why whatever that agreement for finalizing is hasn't been conveyed publicly? By the Company, the unions or whoever? Was there a non disclosure agreement signed for some reason? If there was that might be why we haven't heard anything on that?

Speculating? 

 

[NYer]

Ok so that's a very interesting statement when you think about it. "Timelines" We know that the TWU was obligated to start negotiations 30 days after the merger closed and that was thrown off by the forming of the Association. If I remember correctly after the IAM received their CBA's there was also a 30 day agreement (Again waiting on the NMB to make it official) So you have to think if there are agreements in place to start the process for talks there should be some type of agreement for when talks have to conclude as well?

IF, IF that is the case I wonder why whatever that agreement for finalizing is hasn't been conveyed publicly? By the Company, the unions or whoever? Was there a non disclosure agreement signed for some reason? If there was that might be why we haven't heard anything on that?

Speculating? 

 
They don't need an agreement to finalize any negotiations. They can hold up the process until 2019 if they wanted to. If the TWU or the Association goes towards them with demands that will not be met, then this whole process can come to a complete standstill and the infighting will commence.
 
The lack of mutual preparation will make that more likely.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
They don't need an agreement to finalize any negotiations. They can hold up the process until 2019 if they wanted to. If the TWU or the Association goes towards them with demands that will not be met, then this whole process can come to a complete standstill and the infighting will commence.

If the creditors who needed to agree to the merger also didn't stipulate some type of timeline that negotiations needed to come to an end for stability? Allusions seemed to have at least been presented to that possibility?
 
The lack of mutual preparation will make that more likely.

Mutual preparations and discussions will be imperative. When and how that begins to commence is the question.